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# #053 - Matthew Johnson
- URL: https://adamringler.com/podcast/053/
- Published: 2020-04-06T14:42:38.000Z
- Updated: 2026-10-20T02:06:19.000Z
- Description: In this episode of the Decoding Excellence Show, I'm speaking with Men's Basketball Strength and Conditioning for Butler University, my good friend, Matthew Johnson.
- Author: Adam Ringler
- Tags: Decoding Excellence, #podcast, Strength Training, Sport Science

In this episode of the Decoding Excellence Show, I'm speaking with Men's Basketball Strength and Conditioning for Butler University, my good friend, **Matthew Johnson.**

Johnson serves as a member of the men’s basketball staff at Butler University and oversees the program’s strength and conditioning, while also assisting with rehabilitation of injured student-athletes and working with university partners on nutrition and supplement education.

Johnson most recently served as the Director of Strength and Conditioning at George Washington University from 2013-18.

At George Washington, Johnson supervised a six-person staff that worked to maximize the performance of student-athletes from all 27 varsity athletics programs. In addition to designing and implementing strength and conditioning programs, Johnson also created nutrition initiatives for GW student-athletes and introduced high-performance technology into the program.

**I had a blast recording this show and I know you'll take away a few GREAT things from it!**

You can catch up with Matthew on twitter and instagram at [**StrengthCoachMJ**](https://twitter.com/strengthcoachmj?ref=adamringler.com).

In addition to those social mediums, you can head over to [**AdamRingler.com/Newsletter**](http://www.adamringler.com/newsletter?ref=adamringler.com) and sign-up for my weekly newsletter. This is a newsletter for the curious. It's chalked full of interesting articles I've read through the week, things I'm exploring and finding fascinating through my week, and a collections of thought experiences and resources I've cultivated. It's essentially a Birchbox for performance-related articles and musings.

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If any of the material resonates with you, I'd love for you engage with me at [**@AdamRingler**](https://www.twitter.com/adamringler?ref=adamringler.com)

Thanks again for listening to the Decoding Excellence Show! I appreciate all the support growing this Sport Science, Strength & Conditioning, and High-Performance Coaching resource. If you have taken anything away from the show, please login to iTunes and navigate to [**Decoding Excellence**](https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/decoding-excellence/id1205636566?mt=2&ref=adamringler.com) page and leave us a review.

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## Key Takeaways

- Johnson moved from Director of Strength and Conditioning at George Washington University (2013 to 2018) to men's basketball strength and conditioning at Butler University.
- At George Washington he supervised a six-person staff across all 27 varsity programs, designed and implemented strength and conditioning programs, and created nutrition initiatives.
- He introduced high-performance technology into the GW program, and at Butler he also assists with rehabilitation of injured athletes and nutrition and supplement education.

## About the Guest

Matthew Johnson is the men's basketball strength and conditioning coach at Butler University, where he oversees the program's strength and conditioning, assists with rehabilitation of injured student-athletes, and works with university partners on nutrition and supplement education. He previously served as Director of Strength and Conditioning at George Washington University from 2013 to 2018\. He can be found on Twitter and Instagram at StrengthCoachMJ.

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## Go Further in This Episode

Enjoyed this conversation? Here is how to get more from it:

- **Read the transcript below** to revisit key ideas at your own pace.
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- **Join the newsletter** at [adamringler.com/newsletter](https://adamringler.com/newsletter/) for weekly insights on human performance.

---

## Episode Transcript

*This transcript was automatically generated. While we strive for accuracy, some words or phrases may be misheard.*

\[00:00:00\] Sport science, strength conditioning, high performance coaching, welcome to the Decoding Excellence show. Hey everybody, it is Adam. I want to remind you of one thing, rather than spamming this show with herbal tea advertisements or performance technology companies coming on and trying to sell their latest gizmos, I have opted not to have an advertisement over the last, probably 20 shows or so, 20, 25

\[00:00:44\] Shows. And the reason I do this is because rather than trying to sell you something, all I would like for you to do, if you support the show, if you're a fan of the Decoding Excellence show, maybe some of the interviews that we've had in the past, some of the monologues that we're having some of the Monday Minute episodes, please head over to AdamRingler.com, forward slash newsletter.

\[00:01:04\] About once a month, I'll send you an email and it will be jacked full of really interesting things, research articles, fascinating things I found online, books and reading, podcasts that I've enjoyed, articles that I'm writing, things and people that I'm interviewing and exploring, I think you're going to get a lot out of it. I promise I won't spam you and it will be something that would deliver a lot of value to your day.

\[00:01:25\] Check it out at AdamRingler.com, forward slash newsletter. Hey, everybody. I am excited to bring you this decoding excellence show with my good friend, Matthew Johnson, from Butler University, Mins Basketball Program. Matthew brings a tremendous amount of experience and wisdom to this show from the various stops that he's had, the high school level at Montrose Christian School to the junior college

\[00:01:54\] Level, all the way from going to, from there to George Washington University and now most currently at Butler University. We talk about the lessons that apply from each various stop that he's had, the way that he's had to change his coaching, philosophies and tactics and strategies from one level to next. And we also get into talking about some of the cool and innovative technologies that he's

\[00:02:16\] Using at Butler University to really drive his decision making abilities through data and through analytics. You will not want to miss this show. This was a really fun conversation to have with a coach who really understands and gets the coaching craft. So without further ado, here's my conversation with Butler University's Mins Basketball

\[00:02:40\] Strength and Ignitioning Coach, my friend, Matthew Johnson. Coach, welcome to the Decoding Excellence Show. How you doing? I'm doing great Adam. Thanks for having me on. Hey man, this has been one I've been wanting to record for a while because I've seen

\[00:02:54\] The work that you've been doing online and happen to be the beneficiary of jumping into some Instagram live conversations with you and got to see some of the behind the scenes work that you're doing with your guys. So hey, I want to I want to start the show off just in true podcast nature for those that might not be familiar with with your work here in the United States because we do sort of have an audience expands a globe here.

\[00:03:21\] Just wanted to kind of give you an opportunity to to share who you are and what you're up to and to small little bio about you and behind the coach. Yeah, so currently I just completed my second season at Butler University. My role here is just with the Mins Basketball team. So basically those 1415 guys, that's what I'm working with every single day. Prior to coming here, I was the director of Strength and Ignitioning at George Washington

\[00:03:51\] University. So I oversaw 27 teams, over 500 athletes, had a staff of six individuals. And it was a great experience in the nation's capital, definitely took a lot away from that. And then prior to George Washington, I was working at the high school level at a private school in Rockville, Maryland called Montrose Christian. And a lot of people know about Montrose because Kevin Durant went there.

\[00:04:21\] I didn't train Kevin, but just an unbelievable stock of a high school talent. So I think we had 15 high major players, the years I was there, I was there for four years. And then prior to that, I was actually a business owner. I had my own LLC, it was called Strength Coach Concepts, trained athletes as young as 11 years of age all the way up until college kids in the summer months. So my journey has been unique where I've touched down in basically every area except professional

\[00:04:57\] Sport in Strength and Ignition. Man, that's crazy. So to go from business owner, essentially, you're the CEO, you facilitate almost every role within the small business. And then you work your way high school and then GW and then eventually hear the last two seasons here at Butler University.

\[00:05:20\] So you've got to see sort of the continuum of everything from private sector to high school to both junior and elite level student athletes and within the game of basketball. That's fascinating, man. Yeah, it's been really fun just in terms of, believe it or not, there's a lot of parallels and there's a lot of lines that I've drawn from every experience along the way where when I was a business owner, you have to be great at selling your program.

\[00:05:47\] Where I took that into, you know, the high school world, you have to be really great at selling your high school, in terms of the weight room and then the budgetary things that I learned just keeping my own books as a business owner. I took that into my director role at George Washington and you know, that was a huge part of being a director just overseeing the budget and you know, just spending in terms of things we wanted to do and initiatives that we wanted to accomplish and then, you know, currently

\[00:06:19\] At Butler's, you know, I've been working in basketball for over 13 years, so just collected information along the way and just, you know, now I'm at the big East level and able to provide the best of the best with our basketball athletes here. Yeah, no doubt. I think, you know, a couple of things I want to poke on, certainly I'm going to explore a little of the business sector and some of the, maybe the lessons that you've learned

\[00:06:41\] There and how you've had to apply it in different aspects outside of just selling and communications. I think, you know, whether it is, you know, having to do your own books and just the business component and then maybe some of the parallels eventually to, you know, facilitating and running and supervising, managing a staff at GW. But before I get into that, and I wrote that down as a note I want to touch on, but I want to kind of go down the rabbit hole of education, right?

\[00:07:11\] So, you know, looking through your bio in prep for this, you're right, we obviously have a strong exercise science background as one would expect, you know, being in this profession, kinesiology, exercise science, or science, all this route. But I want to sort of ask you, maybe selfishly, like, what was it that pushed you or motivated you to go that route, rather than maybe like, you know, if you first started out and you were going into business rather than like, a business degree or something else that, what

\[00:07:43\] Sort of fueled you to go exercise science? Yeah, you know, it's, it's amazing, you know, how people are a product of their environment. And so for me, I think coaches create coaches. And I was, I was lucky to, I just get into the weight room as a young high school athlete. You know, I started in the weight room with my dad when I was 15, just doing the, the nautilist circuits at the YMST.

\[00:08:12\] Hey, and that's kind of just where it started, but I would probably say, for me, it started with failure. You know, I, I started picked up a basketball when I was six years old and just, you know, started swatting at it like most young kids do on the asphalt, but, you know, it started with failure for me at, you know, junior varsity team, I, I did not make as a high school and that just was, was devastating to me.

\[00:08:38\] And the reason I didn't make the team when I asked the coach, it wasn't my skill, it was just, you know, you weren't strong enough, you weren't fast enough, you know, the other kids were just stronger and faster than you. And so that led me to really just focusing and taking my athleticism to the next level and my dad had a little bit of a background with weight training and strength training, but he wanted to help me and there was this guy in our area in upstate New York,

\[00:09:09\] Conversion from Saratoga Springs, his name was Lee Tath and so Lee, a lot of people know him as the speed guy and at the time Lee was training athletes out of his garage, his driveway. He also had a little small facility in Queensbury, New York, so it was about a 20 minute drive from my house to train with Lee and I, I just fell in love with it, man, you know, just and I remember just the, the more and more that we, you know, the time we spent together,

\[00:09:44\] I started thinking, man, this guy's job is pretty cool, you know, like I would love to do this one day. And so I think that's, that's why I dove into it, you know, as an 18 year old trying to decide what you want to do in college. That's a big decision and for me, I think I just relied on my passion. Yeah, yeah.

\[00:10:06\] I think, you know, in such a parallel to that, I had very similar experiences, right? Like I wasn't the most successful wrestler in my junior prep days and then, you know, I was fortunate enough that my dad wasn't necessarily my coach, but knew was, it was wise enough to know not to necessarily overstep that boundary from a father to a coach and sought out somebody within our sort of local area to actually help facilitate some of that coaching.

\[00:10:34\] And that's a story that I've heard a lot from people that have sort of, as a sort of backtrack their own sort of coaching genesis in the, the beginning of it has been like, oh, wow, you know, like it was born out of failure. It was born out of maybe not being the best of what they do. And then seeking out and finding the weight room through an avenue of trying to, you know, increase their sport skill through that weight room.

\[00:11:00\] So I want to, I want to maybe go back even further. So you're, you said you're sort of a product that like as most coaches are of a family that coaches, like when you mentioned your father being a coach, did he coach basketball or was he just a coach of, just a coach of you, coach of other sports? Like because I think that's such a powerful narrative. And I'd love to explore a little bit more about that sort of a coach coming from a family

\[00:11:25\] That maybe coaches. Yeah. So I'm an only child and my dad was a UDT. So he was an underwater demolition team in Vietnam. And so basically that's the team before the Navy seals. Yeah.

\[00:11:43\] He grew up in this, you know, as a kid, he grew up in a very, I think strict standard in, you know, just childhood. And I think that's what led him eventually to the military. So me growing up, I constantly had standards and challenges and accountability. And, you know, I've just grew up in this, you know, a very loving environment, but also very, very strict and very demanding at the same time.

\[00:12:13\] And it's funny, I looked back at my childhood. My dad coached almost every single one of my teams when I was growing up. When I was playing soccer, baseball, basketball, my dad was always, you know, those youth teams that you play on as a minister. He was always coaching. But what was great was I think he realized, like you just mentioned,

\[00:12:35\] I think he realized, you know, he needed to take the back seat. So when it became time as a high school age athlete, you know, 13, 14, 15, he stopped coaching my teams, but he never stopped coaching me at home. Yeah. In terms of just the, you know, the fireside talks or just the talks at the dinner table. And even to this day now, you know, I just love my phone calls, you know,

\[00:13:01\] Just home and FaceTime's home with my dad, like always, always coaching me and challenging me to be the best. Yeah, yeah. I think something in that that really resonates with me is that, you know, coming from that military background, you said that you were never devoid of having high standards and, you know, a very maybe strict regimen

\[00:13:23\] And discipline about things. And I think what you said also in that is that it was never unloving. And I think sometimes people think that, you know, by having high standards that it's a cold environment. And I think as we found out, you know, through coaching and really trying to drive the culture of a program, the collectiveness of a basketball team

\[00:13:44\] That you can have high standards and still, you know, love the people that you work with. I think by, you know, loving them, you hold them to high standards. And it's not that they're mutually polarized or mutually exclusive. Yeah, no, I totally agree with that. I'm like, I think, you know, the, you don't realize what you're learning

\[00:14:05\] When you're going through something, right? Sometimes it's a genocidist and you would, you know, come to those realizations later. But what I've learned is accountability is love. Yeah. Somebody in your life that's in your corner. And, you know, they're celebrating your success, but they're also there

\[00:14:25\] And they're telling you, hey, you know, you need to step up. You need to do better. I need more discipline or commitment out of you. I think that are in your life for a certain reason and obviously they love you very much. Yeah, no doubt on that.

\[00:14:41\] And what a great serendipitous opportunity that you had growing up where you were to, you know, be a stone's throw, 20-minute drive away from, you know, Lee Taff, like, you know, there's people that would love the train with industry giants that would drive miles and miles and hours away. And here you are as a, you know, a young athlete and you get a train with, you know, one of the nation's best.

\[00:15:03\] That's amazing. Yeah, it was, it was, it's funny how it's evolved because at the time I remember Lee was really just starting up. Yeah. And Lee was becoming a main. And he was talking about the plyo step and people were, you know,

\[00:15:19\] Hey, you know, the track world was going crazy. And now it's been really enjoyable because we've gone on this journey together where the relationship started, you know, when I was an athlete and he was coaching me now, it's just, you know, coach to coach and we still stay in touch.

\[00:15:36\] He's actually here in Indianapolis. So it's funny how we've reconnected recently. Yeah, no doubt. So you come out of school, right? We get out of this and, you know, we go through our educational years. And then, so is that the next step leaving essentially

\[00:15:53\] That the business world? Or do we go further? Do we jump into anything else? Yeah. You know, I think the thing for me that was, was, I think it was, it was positive for me where I realized I did not want

\[00:16:11\] To do something clinical where typically the undergrad exercise science track sends you away. I did an internship with Johnson and Johnson and it was basically just an exercise testing lab, you know, running people on BL2 max tests testing all butyls inhalers basically.

\[00:16:35\] And I, you know, you just realized like, yeah, this isn't for me. And so that just, you know, that sent me into more of the practical side. Nice, nice. So at that point in time, you know, you go on, you've done this master's degree and graduate

\[00:16:52\] What 2009-ish right around there. Yes, yeah. And then, so during that time, did you have opportunities to work with maybe collegiate athletes and sort of dip your toe into like, this is, man, I've, like, this coaching thing.

\[00:17:05\] I've learned about extra science through my undergrad. Now I'm at grad school and I'm learning more about this. Sort of describe or talk a little bit about those, you may be pivotal two years or so. Yeah, so, you know, I think those years looking back at it is like, you know, those were the initial bricks, right?

\[00:17:26\] Those are the foundational years. And it was hard, you know, I'm not going to lie. It was, it was, you know, just limited hours of sleep at night and early mornings. And, you know, it was great for me because I found my love and that was just being on the weight room floor

\[00:17:46\] And just coaching athletes and just the relationship side. You know, our graduate program at Bridgewater State was very, you know, very relationship driven. It was small tight knit. Dr. Ellen Robinson, she was the chairperson of the department and basically anybody that was in the concentration major

\[00:18:08\] Of strength conditioning, you had to be a TA. And there was all these undergraduate, you know, weightlifting courses and, you know, activity classes and she allowed us just the, you know, the responsibility to take those and run with them. And so that's where I started coaching

\[00:18:28\] And then I was lucky enough to get on board at Boston College with Coach Russ Derosa. Yeah. And that was just early mornings, you know, the alarm clock would go off at 3.45\. And I had to be in, you know, I was living in Bridgewater.

\[00:18:46\] So it was about, you know, 40 minute drive in the Boston around Chestnut Hill area. And men's hockey was training at 5 a.m. Wow. I had to be in there at around 4.30 and start setting up. And, you know, I think, I think that when you're going through

\[00:19:04\] It, right, you're, you're like, man, this stinks. You know, and you're tired and you're, and you're grouchy. And, but looking back at it, you know, those years were so important for me because they built calluses. Yeah.

\[00:19:22\] And those calluses, you know, that's a sign of strength. And you need a lot of strength to persevere, you know, the long hours, the early mornings in this profession. And I'm glad that I went through, you know, the early mornings and the long days of Boston College and Jugville grad school

\[00:19:38\] Because that helped me build calluses to persevere all the, all the, all the diversity and sacrifices that you have to make in this profession. So the bridge on top of that, you know, so we go from that and anybody that's gone through, you know, graduate assistant programs or volunteering,

\[00:19:55\] Interning, being on the floor, the limited sleep, long, long days, right? We all started from that sort of point in time. But like, to take those experiences and those literally like soulful calluses and then to go on to GW where you're in charge

\[00:20:15\] And you're, you know, not only of a staff of a program and the demands, I mean, what lessons did you learn or, you know, not necessarily advice, but like the resiliency that you learn from those early days of grinding it out, did you have to apply at GW? Yeah, you know, it's funny.

\[00:20:34\] I would probably say I drew two parallels, one for my father just, you know, accountability is love and so I held my staff accountable because I loved them and I cared about their growth and development and, you know, I also pushed them. I think that was the main thing for me

\[00:20:55\] Just the light ball moment where I'm glad I didn't have mentors and I'm glad that people early on in my career didn't enable me and just allow me to be naive with what this profession is all about. They were filled with that real talk, right? They kept it real with me and they just told me

\[00:21:15\] How it was going to be and they put me through the ringer and, you know, I became this stronger coach, I had this stronger minded individual and I was able to just, you know, every step of the way, whatever door opened for me, I was able to open it and step in and run it.

\[00:21:33\] And so with my staff, you know, they would probably say that I pushed them, that I gave them the responsibility to take things and run with it, like where programming, for instance, I never told them what exercises to do. They, as a staff, they developed the annual plan.

\[00:21:57\] They did the needs analysis. They spoke to their coaches and we would have, you know, by weekly, monthly meetings, just to kind of discuss where they were at and where they were progressing with their teams, but I didn't want to handcuff them. I wanted them to go out on their own and run it

\[00:22:16\] And that's the thing where, you know, with failure comes growth. And so with some of those, you know, situations, yeah, you know, there was some things that they had to learn and just like myself, you know, there was some things that I did wrong or I could have done better

\[00:22:34\] And you don't do that if you don't, you know, grab it, it was your own two hands and run with it and do it yourself. So I just wanted them to be them. Yeah. And you know, it's just so rewarding now, you know,

\[00:22:53\] Just seeing where they've gone in their career and we just recently had kind of like a Zoom reunion just connecting with everybody on the old staff. That's awesome. You know, they brought that up. They were like, yeah, you know, MJ, you pushed us,

\[00:23:08\] But we always knew you cared about us. And that I think was the thing they appreciated the most. Yeah, I want to spend a little bit more time on this because it's, I think it's powerful, but like, so you spend five years there, right? And what, I have a feeling I might know

\[00:23:26\] How you're gonna answer this but just to crystallize it and maybe selfishly just so I can hear it so that like, it again, it resonates with me a little bit. But like, what are, what are you most proud of when you look back on your time there? Like if I were to be like, what is, what was the legacy

\[00:23:43\] That you left behind that you could look back and point to, you know, metaphorically and be like, I'm really proud of this or I'm really proud of that. Or like, what do you walk away from that five-year stretch of time that you're just most proud of?

\[00:23:58\] Yeah, I think, you know, when I look back at GW, I'll never forget the first day I walked in on my interview and I saw the weight room and you know, I kind of view the place that, you know, man, this place could really, you know, be special. Yeah.

\[00:24:20\] And in five years, we added more staff, we added technology, we added weight rooms, we added performance dining and so we added all these resources for the athlete and we created a community. And that, you know, that's the one thing I'm proud of the most

\[00:24:40\] Is we, it wasn't about just one team, right? It was about GW athletics and the success of all the sports within GW athletics and that meant something to all of us. And you know, for example, the performance dining, the training table, it just evolved

\[00:25:03\] From this little mini buffet that we started putting out at 6 a.m. Just with scrambled eggs and bagels and it morphed into this full, you know, make your own waffle, yogurt parfait, you know, chicken sausage and hash browns

\[00:25:21\] And scrambled eggs, you know, just buffet. And it just, here's the thing that I love the most about that what we did is we started seeing athletes hanging out with other athletes. Yeah. We had this room filled with all round tables, right?

\[00:25:39\] And just the cross pollination, you know, you had volleyball athletes sitting with basketball athletes and basketball athletes sitting with soccer, baseball and and that's what it's all about, right? Just just creating a high performance culture. And so that's what I'm proud of the most.

\[00:25:56\] Yeah, man. So to bridge on top of that, right? We go from, you know, essentially being the catalyst that binds everybody together, the six person staff that you're overseeing at GW, 27 different varsity athletic programs

\[00:26:13\] To now where you've been, right? The last sort of two years here where you've been at Butler and now it's not the onslaught of student athletes that you have. It's a much smaller team dynamic size. Much more, I don't always want to say it's much more

\[00:26:28\] Individualistic because, you know, you can still individualize for a lot of larger teams but it just becomes a little bit harder when the scale is at the extreme edge of it. So the last two years, let's dive into a little bit of this, right?

\[00:26:43\] And I want to start with the lessons, the positive ones, the things that you've immediately been able to apply and roll over from your experiences at the high school level to GW. Now GW, that maybe the small handful of things that you immediately day one could walk through the door

\[00:27:04\] And say, okay, this is the lessons that I learned here and I'm applying it to the athletes I'm now working with. What would you say those are? Yeah, I would say, you know, from a high school standpoint, you know, I saw directly how just in terms of the youth developmental culture of just basketball

\[00:27:27\] At the high school level, you know, athletes were getting this high level of competition, right, with AU and some leagues and even the high school season was getting extended in this low level of preparation. And so all the, it kind of, it made sense because I knew what I was getting

\[00:27:50\] In terms of an incoming freshman athlete, right? And probably what they've been lacking and nine out of 10 are lacking that just training age and formalized training in the weight room. And so I think I know exactly what they need in terms of, you know, yes, they are elite on the court

\[00:28:12\] But they are very amateur in the weight room. Yeah. And so I would say the high spending time in the high school world directly showed me that where GW, you know, the one thing that has helped me out in terms of my time here at Butler is as a director,

\[00:28:31\] You have to be great just in terms of your conversations and your interactions with the head coaches. And I think what I've, you know, this, I've figured out over the course of my career is that basketball coaches in general, or they focus on kinematics, they evaluate by just seeing the sport, right?

\[00:28:56\] Where strength conditioning coaches, we evaluate in a large part of what we do is very data driven and very driven by tests and measures. So how can we take those two areas and better communicate

\[00:29:13\] Because now we know what coaches are looking for and how they communicate, right? And so for me here now at Butler, like I love sitting in the development talks with the basketball staff and just being a fly in the wall and listening like what a player needs

\[00:29:35\] And what they need to improve on. And then my wheels start turning because then I start thinking of different tests, different measures that we can employ but also different exercises and programming strategies to improve those.

\[00:29:47\] Yeah, yeah. I think there's, there's two things I wanna touch on on that that I think just would benefit all strength coaches or performance coaches is that, you know, and I recognize not everybody will have the capability or the scale in their hours of the day

\[00:30:03\] To be able to do this. But one of the things that's really helped me was just being able to sit in and film with the two teams that I service here at Colorado and be able to watch and see and start to learn what the coaches are looking for kinematically

\[00:30:18\] And somewhere technically, tactically just so that I can again understand their verbiage and their vernacular so that when I have these guys in the weight room as well that I'm using the same language that they're familiar with, right?

\[00:30:33\] And so that's been a huge thing but then to go back, right? And you're talking about maybe the differences of how we see things, right? The coaches have a tendency of potentially seeing with their eye, their coaches eye of, you know, how they move and why they move

\[00:30:48\] And the position where they're at and we have a tendency as strength coaches to be more qualitative and or quantitative and more measured base. And it's like I look at it in the same way that, you know, there's pros and cons

\[00:31:02\] To any type of combine testing, right? There's some, there's a camp that will usually say, hey, yeah, they got terrible numbers but you know what, they can play ball. So we're gonna still, we're gonna still get them, right? And then there's other times where like, yeah,

\[00:31:15\] They've tested out their testing numbers are insane but yo, he can't play, you know, like, so it's like, well, you can't make the argument for both sides of this like if it's a, you know, like so what we're talking about is transference at that point, like maybe the, maybe the test don't transfer.

\[00:31:32\] So then let's sit down together and measure things that actually do transfer. And it sounded like within that conversation, you know, of what you just shared is that, that allows you enables you to look at and hear and see things the coaches say and say, hey,

\[00:31:47\] Maybe we can measure things a little bit differently. Maybe there is a test that we can use that actually transfers better to encore performance. Yeah, no, absolutely. I think that's the most exciting part of what I'm doing here at Butler

\[00:32:00\] Is just the day to day work with the coaching staff and just taking the back seat and just learning and I think getting outside my comfort zone because it, you know, like I said, I played, I grew up playing basketball but in terms of the level of knowledge that they have

\[00:32:20\] In terms of evaluating the game, seeing it and improving it is something that has improved me as a strengthening coach just by improving my knowledge of that. Yeah, so I started with maybe the lessons that you successfully applied from GW coming out here

\[00:32:39\] But what are maybe some of the, it is sort of a painful topic sometimes but like what are the things that you've had to either adapt very quickly after getting there maybe some of the things, challenges, limitations, roadblocks, hurdles, whatever we might wanna call them

\[00:32:57\] That you are recognized early that you were like, ooh, I'm gonna have to make some modifications through the way I was either thinking the paradigms, the heuristics that I had, I might need adapt to be successful in this position now. Yeah, in my first summer, I treated that as,

\[00:33:17\] I basically had 15 freshmen and what I have traditionally done is, you know, you have an incoming group and that program is different and then you have a returning group and that program is obviously different

\[00:33:32\] And you always have to meet the athletes where they are but I knew I had to start from basically block zero and really emphasize the main pillars of my program and I would probably say the top of the list there is quality over quantity. So just getting everybody moving at the same mastery level

\[00:33:56\] In terms of anything they do in the weight room, I think is key and now we can start loading those athletes safely because the mobility is there, the stability is there, the positions are there. So it took, you know, I think a little bit of convincing because I had some athletes that were juniors

\[00:34:20\] And they had been doing formalized traffic conditioning for a couple of years but looking back at it, I'm so glad we did that because my second offseason with the group, we were able just to take it to the next level because we kind of moved those smaller stones, right?

\[00:34:38\] Before moving the bigger ones. And I think in future years, other settings like I had not done that. And so I think now is, you know, I have my boxes that I want to check, I have my standards, I have my high emphasis

\[00:34:59\] On movement quality and getting everybody to move in that framework is really important to just long term success in your program. Yeah, yeah, you know, I think even with that, I felt the challenge that I've had, I think as I've gone on continuing to coach

\[00:35:17\] Is more so a personal one, not necessarily an environmental one. And that is to continue to try to be patient because I found myself lately, maybe not lately, but yeah, lately where I'm wanting to rush the process in some respects where I'm wanting to take our freshmen and get them catch up to our, you know,

\[00:35:39\] Sophomore or young junior group and then our higher, like our higher juniors, senior group and I feel this internal turmoil of wanting to just, I just want to push a little bit more and every single time that I've made the decision to say slow down, let's start it like a block zero,

\[00:35:59\] I've never regretted it, or I've never regretted it, right? Like I've always been like, damn, that was worth it. I'm so glad I do it. But then yet I forget that when I'm in the moment on the floor when I'm feeling the pressure of wanting to accelerate and push down on the gas pedal and do it.

\[00:36:16\] So it's those lessons of just trying to pause and remember like Adam, like you've never regretted starting slower and starting more basic and starting more primitive and starting more fundamental and foundational than wanting to push people through. And I think too, like maybe in your case,

\[00:36:34\] I don't know if you felt this, but like when I first arrived at Colorado and it's like elite basketball, right, this is your power five or going for a PAC 12 conference, you sort of have that expectation. You're like, yeah, you know, like I got it,

\[00:36:47\] We got to go, we got no time to lose, right? We got to get the, and then like you said, very early on from taking some of the lessons from the high school level, you realize like, you might be an elite basketball athlete, but you are not an elite mover.

\[00:37:01\] You're not a elite in your preparatory skills that helps prepare you for your art and court athletics. And you can barely squat with any fundamental, you know, like kinematic qualities. So it's, that's some of the things that you've just shared that you really have, have resonated with me.

\[00:37:19\] Yeah, that's, you know, it's funny if I could just touch on this, I don't like, I 100% agree with you on that. And I think that's the one thing just from speaking to coaches is that's the skills of a master coach is being able to hit the brakes.

\[00:37:37\] Anybody could put their foot on the gas and just go, go, go, go, go, go, go. But it's the great coaches, it's the master coaches that have that ability to slow down, apply the brakes, take their time. And it's an acquired skill.

\[00:37:53\] You know, I can't say that I was, I was great at that. When I was the young MJ started off in this profession, but it's something that you acquire over time is that ability just to slow things down just like you said and apply that break. So I want to take a couple of minutes here as well

\[00:38:12\] And transition, right? We've talked about movements, we've talked about some of the lessons that you've applied from GW now at Butler. And I want to pause here because I think you're doing some really innovative things at Butler

\[00:38:27\] And particularly with the basketball program that you work with. And I want to just use this as maybe a pedestal to talk about some of the innovative things that you're doing. So if you don't mind, I'd love to poke around

\[00:38:40\] And hear a little bit about some of the things that's set in your program apart and some of the technologies and tools and resources, the techniques that you're getting a lot of bang for your buck out of. Yeah, no, absolutely.

\[00:38:52\] You know, I think the first thing I would like to touch on is what we do in season. And you know, the in season for us is the longest uninterrupted training block. And so it's something that's very important to me just in terms of our LTAD

\[00:39:10\] As long-term athletic development of our guys here where we're pooling our guys, right? And so we basically drop them into different buckets. So we have our A-group, high minute players. I mean, those are your work horses, 30 plus minute again players.

\[00:39:31\] B-group, your mid-minute, right? Put maybe six, seventh, eighth man on the roster. And then the C-group, those are the low minute, maybe sit out transfer athletes. Typically the athletes that have DMP next to their name that are just throwing up the three goggles

\[00:39:49\] And celebrating next to me during the games. But and so what we do is we have, I'm a big fan of minimal effect of those in season. So our sessions are no longer than 30 minutes. I mean, we're in and out now the frequency at which we train, you know,

\[00:40:11\] We're trying to get three lifts in a week at least in some situations, four. And so those pools, that A-group, the B-group, the C-group, they're all squatting, right? So we set a range, maybe it's four by four, four sets, four reps.

\[00:40:32\] The A-group is gonna squat at 65%, right? The B-group is gonna squat at 75%. The C-group, like I said, they're not playing, right? Those are more of our, get better guys. Those are more of our developmental athletes. They're squatting four by four, 85%.

\[00:40:50\] So it's, we're kind of drawn lines, if you will, right? And it's not the hurt feelings, but it's too long-term develop our athletes over time. Where I've had conversations with guys, it's like, hey, man, I'm sorry, I know you wanna play, you're not getting that time out there this season,

\[00:41:13\] But instead of just getting one off season, let's get two off season. Yeah, let's use this and let's get after it and try to develop as much as possible. So they'll see low-minute guys, we're working out on the road,

\[00:41:28\] We're working out on game day. They're squatting big, squatting heavy. And vice versa, you know, with that A-group, they're still squatting. And anybody that knows about just the body, as long as you're training consistently,

\[00:41:44\] You're not gonna be sore from doing 16 reps at 65%, right? So just from a culture aspect, right? Everybody's training, everybody's squatting, but they're squatting differently. No, yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are the conversations that maybe that 18, 19-year-old

\[00:42:04\] Freshman coming in don't often understand, is that when you're going up to the squat rack and you got the velocity-based measurement tools on some racks and other racks they don't, and it's like, well, hey, we're a tweener, we're right now, you're not getting many minutes

\[00:42:21\] And this is your off season. We're preparing you in the event that the next man up or the next woman up that we need you to be ready. And like, developmentally, this is a great phenomenal opportunity for you to continue to get better.

\[00:42:38\] And rather than trying to chase peak velocities or average velocities at a lower load for power production, like, no, I actually want you squatting a little bit heavier because we need to change your lean muscle mass. So we need to get you stronger and build that foundation where you can be more explosive off of.

\[00:42:54\] So that's pretty fascinating. I think just from the way that you manage on a sliding scale, depending on the minute's allocations that these athletes are having from 85 to 75 to 65, everybody squatting, but they're just doing it at different percentages of their max.

\[00:43:10\] How about, like, one of the things that I think I sometimes get into this camp when it comes to data and analytics and wearable technologies and monitoring, which look, I will make no mistake that I am able to pull no punches

\[00:43:27\] That this is an area of fascination for me and something that I'm very passionate about. But you have shared on another podcast that you're utilizing a resource connection. I'm familiar with connection and there's been a couple of different schools

\[00:43:42\] That we've chatted with that's used at. Can you not look, don't make no mistake. This doesn't necessarily need to be a sales pitch, but just in a general of the way that you're using monitoring technologies, wearable devices to capture either

\[00:43:58\] The bio-demands of the actual sport or the individual demands are different position groups so that you can prepare them. Can you talk through just momentarily maybe some of your experiences with wearable tech and how that's helping your program?

\[00:44:11\] Yeah, absolutely. I think the most powerful thing if we could just stretch the timeline out in terms of how we use this technology is quantifying the demand of the game. And if I could just look at a window of October

\[00:44:30\] To the beginning of March 11th or so, we had athletes accumulate over 400 miles on the court all practices and games. So we had athletes accumulate over 12,000 jumps. Something as small as a little displacement, one-inch jump, like a little coupling jump

\[00:44:52\] To those big max effort range and area rebounds or whatever. We had some athletes over 600 top-end sprints. That's just sprint on the court over 13 miles per hour. So I think that's the thing with basketball is they're dribbling the round ball

\[00:45:10\] And they're moving around out there. And a lot of it is change the direction base, deceleration, and that's a part of it, but just in terms of the demand. I mean, those are really big eye-opening numbers. And so for us, I think it's helped us

\[00:45:27\] In just terms of readiness and recovery and helping our coaches understand, like, yeah, our athletes are undergoing a lot of stress on the court. And that's about a five and a half month window. We haven't even collected the five on five

\[00:45:47\] Open gym in the summertime. Right. We're not even talking about the skill workouts. We're not even talking about other modes of conditioning and things that they do with me. And so that's been very beneficial.

\[00:46:02\] And I'd probably say that the biggest thing for us, where I know Connection is also used at the MBA level, where the MBA level, they play more than they practice. Yeah. Where the college game, what's different about that is we practice more than we play, right?

\[00:46:23\] So for us, I think we totaled about 105 practices this season. We have 33 games. So the majority of our stress on our athletes is on those practice days. So how can we better plan and progress our athletes and stress our athletes

\[00:46:48\] On those practice days, right? And I think that's where the difference between winning and losing lives is can we better be better on those days to prepare to play? And because of it, we'll be better on game day. I think somewhat, you know, like you hear coaches talk

\[00:47:04\] Quite a bit about, you know, I need to be game ready and we gotta work our way into game shape. And a lot of that's, you know, without objectively quantifying what game shape is, right? What number of sprints, what velocities people need to hear, what type of workload, IMAs, change of directions,

\[00:47:23\] Excels, decels, right? Like a lot of that is just feel that a coach might have over 20, 30 years of coaching basketball. But when we start to equip and you start to enable coaches to, you know, be able to focus in that subjective eye through quantifiable numbers.

\[00:47:42\] It only helps strengthen the argument that, you know, the biases, the positive biases or perceptions that they have within their own coaches eye. So like, you know, sometimes people will like to say, oh, you know, it's again, a very polarizing camp that, you know, I'm a see it type of coach

\[00:48:00\] Or I'm a numbers data type of guy. And I'm like, look, if we marry the two of them, how much better would we all be when we can start to rely on ourselves based on, you know, zeroing in with the numbers that we have from each practice to practice game to game?

\[00:48:15\] Yeah, no, 100%. I mean, it should include this. It, everything we're doing on the data front, it wouldn't be possible without our head coach. Oh, no doubt. I mean, and I think that is a very important part

\[00:48:29\] Of using high performance technology is the sport coach that you're working with. And our head coach here, I mean, we've created a drill master list, you know, from high medium and low in terms of load and on any given day.

\[00:48:46\] So for example, if we prescribe practice tomorrow as a moderate day, he knows he has 500 to 750 units to work with. So he could pick any drill on that drill master list, but it has to be in that low range or that low parameter. So he plans practice based off of it.

\[00:49:08\] I mean, it's just great to work with such an open-minded growth mindset individual as him. And you know, it's funny Adam too. Like it's almost like data mining is like goal mining, right? Like if you watch that show on Discovery Channel, like there's just, you know, mounds of soil and dirt

\[00:49:33\] That they've sifted through and they just have collected a few filaments of like gold and a few nuggets. And so, you know, year one here of utilizing it, like we've collected things, but I'm not going to say that we've collected like, you know,

\[00:49:48\] 25 different things from the data so far. And I think for me, in terms of just my evolution, working with technology, that's the biggest thing I've learned is when I first got, you know, technology in the past was like, oh, man, it's going to tell me so much stuff.

\[00:50:07\] I'm like, so excited, you know? And then you realize like, man, like I really have to work at this and have to sift through a lot of data, have to mine through this stuff to really figure out some good nuggets. Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of people think when they, you know, sign that agreement,

\[00:50:22\] That purchase order that it's immediately going to come, you know, and solve all their problems and what they've, I think, quickly we'll find out is that in some respects, they'll create more problems. And not that they're bad problems, they're just problems. Like then, oh, man, I got to think about this different

\[00:50:37\] Or how am I going to do X, Y or Z or logistics or I didn't know I was going to sign up for all this extra work. I got to clean this data and to trim it, I have to do this. Now, and then it's just there. I have to actually, you know, interpret it a little bit

\[00:50:51\] To make meaningful ideas and changes. Yeah, that comes par for the course. But that's how you get that data driven insight. I want to respect your time. I know I've stolen almost an hour and there's so many different gems in this.

\[00:51:05\] But I want to kind of, yeah, not do a, I feel like it's campy to do like a focus round of questions. But I do, like if these guys resonate with you a little bit, feel free. I'd rather have great quality depth in some of these questions.

\[00:51:21\] But I get a lot of people that will DM me after a show that are young coaches, graduate assistants or interns. And they're like, you know, this is all new to them. This is their, this is their world that they're right about to inherit and step into

\[00:51:36\] As a junior coach. And sometimes what I get from them is, you know, like they ask me, like what advice would you give to a young coach about ready to enter the field? And I love that question. I carry my own biases and I answer

\[00:51:52\] Into my own particular ways. But if you had a junior coach and they DM you or they reach out to you and they say, you know, like, hey, well, what advice would you give me? What, what would be your default or at least general advice that you'd give a young coach

\[00:52:07\] Just about to take his first job? Yeah, no, I think I always use this example. It's a sneaker example. And, you know, the sneaker might look cool, but it's got to fit. And that's what training programs are, right?

\[00:52:23\] So you might see something on the shelf and it's like a really flashy cool look and shoe and then you ask the person, hey, do you have a size 12? And they go in the back and, ah, no, we're out of that. Well, you can't, you can't, you can't get it, right? And so I think that's the biggest thing

\[00:52:41\] Is my word of advice to young coaches is, you know, learn and be on this pursuit for knowledge and growth. But when you're learning filter, you know, there's almost like this filtration process that has to occur and think to yourself, will this fit? Will this fit with the coaching staff

\[00:53:02\] That I'm working with? Will this fit with my athletes? Yes, this is some flashy really cool look and stuff. But cannot apply this with my athletes and my sports that I'm currently working on. Yeah, I think that's such great advice

\[00:53:15\] Because a lot of the times I feel like people sometimes go out and they want to chase a particular logo or school or geographical location. But what doesn't often register in their assessment of that is, is this the right fit for where I'm at in my career? Are these people that are going to help enable me

\[00:53:36\] To become a better version myself to hold me accountable? And will it give me the tools and the resources to be successful when I transition from this position to a hard word? Or am I stocking fridges and doing the grunt work that doesn't help develop me as a coach?

\[00:53:53\] I want to wrap up with this question because I think this is something, this is a selfish question, something that I've constantly questioned to myself and ask other people. But when you start to feel overwhelmed or unfocused or, you know, for whatever reason, loss of focus,

\[00:54:12\] What do you do to disconnect? Yeah, I love the outdoors. I love just going on a hike with my fiance and just, you know, you kind of feel this sense of solitude and peace when you're in the woods. I don't know what it is, but I just,

\[00:54:33\] Whenever I want to just kind of disconnect and get away from it all, we go on a hike and it's obviously great a long time with her, you know, where, you know, there's a lot of travel and there's a lot of, you know, opportunity in this. So it's good one-on-one time with her

\[00:54:50\] Where we can just talk about life and just other things, non-strung conditioning related. But yeah, I just, you know, I just, I love, I love, you know, outdoors and just hiking. So I'll link to this next response in the show notes here, but for everybody that has made it through this show

\[00:55:08\] And either have questions or want to reach out and see some of the innovative things that you're doing with Butler basketball, where can people contact you or find you on social media or elsewhere? Yeah, so I'm on Twitter and Instagram.

\[00:55:23\] My handle is Strength Coach MJ. Okay. And I, you know, I try to, I love it as a platform to connect as well. So if you send me a DM, I always respond and I would love to get on the phone.

\[00:55:38\] It's the fellowship is something that I love and just paying it forward to other coaches is something I enjoy as well. We'll do, man. I'll make sure that I include it in our notes here and like always, man, thanks so much.

\[00:55:50\] I really appreciate the opportunity to wrap with you and pick your brain and ask them selfless questions, but also ask some things about your unique journey and how you got to where you are. So thank you for joining us today. Yeah, thanks so much, Adam.

\[00:56:04\] Awesome, man. Hey, everybody, that's gonna be a wrap for this episode of the Decoding Excellence Show. This was a blast to have this conversation with Matthew Johnson for Butler University Men's Basketball. We get into talking about a lot of things in this.

\[00:56:21\] And I think if you are listening acutely to the lessons and some of the things that he's had to share about the various stops that he's been working on, I think it's a lot of things that he's been working on. The stops that he's been at,

\[00:56:36\] You can very easily take some of these lessons away and apply it to your own coaching journey. Whether it's about having high standards or being tough and really caring about your athletes and having those philosophies that is athlete-centric, I think you'll really resonate with the conversations

\[00:56:54\] That we've had and I hope you have enjoyed them across the entire interview that we had with what is otherwise an excellent practitioner and excellent strength and conditioning coach, but also an excellent human. You can check them out at his social media contact.

\[00:57:11\] I will post that below. And like always, thank you so much for supporting the Decoding Excellence Show. We couldn't do it without you with the whole reason this show exists is to give you guys the tools, the tactics,

\[00:57:25\] The techniques behind world-class performers. And Matthew Johnson is definitely one of those guys and gals out there. He is a truly world-class performer. I wanted to thank him for coming on. And as always, there's a number of different ways

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\[00:59:02\] I know the name sounds sort of confusing or misleading if you will. But what it is is it's a platform, sort of a crowdsourcing way of donating to the show. And the idea is that you would donate a coffee, right? $5, $4 or whatever to the decoding excellence show.

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