> ## Content Index > Fetch the complete content index at: https://adamringler.com/llms.txt > Use this file to discover other available public pages before exploring further. # #024 Ethan Owens - URL: https://adamringler.com/podcast/024/ - Published: 2018-02-21T01:41:42.000Z - Updated: 2026-10-20T04:32:37.000Z - Author: Adam Ringler - Tags: Decoding Excellence, #podcast, Sport Science In this episode of the Decoding Excellence Show, I am joined with my good friend, former strength and conditioning coach and current informatics analyst, **Ethan Owens.** Ethan currently is an informatics analyst in Dayton, Ohio at CareSource. Ethan has been involved in analytics for the better part of a decade now, bouncing back between sport analytics and healthcare analytics. Before his current position, he held positions at CoachMePlus, Catapult, and as a data scientist for TriHealth in Cincinatti. Ethan received a bachelor's in physical education and in exercise science from the University of Dayton, and a master's degree in sport physiology at East Tennessee State University. **On the show, Ethan & I discuss A LOT:** 4:24 – Ethan’s biography and journey into coaching 6:30 – Journey into working with Catapult Sports 7:25 – Ethan's beginnings with analytics & programming languages 10:30 – The infiltration of analytics in sports performance 11:30 – Where Ethan's interests in analytics began 15:30 – How a GREAT teacher can disguise statistical education 17:20 – Learning how to ask better questions 21:50 – Capturing data into software and the progression 23:20 – The importance of reading 26:45 – Sport-Related Book Recommendations 28:40 – Non-Sport Related Book Recommendations 30:00 – Statistics Related Book Recommendations 36:30 – What are other resources Ethan consumes 38:00 – The **proper and healthy** use of Twitter 42:00 – The *Power* of PowerBI *(That's a lame pun)* 43:30 – What does 30 million rows look like? 44:15 - Partially Derivative Podcast Recommendation 45:45 - What unique qualities or absurd habits make Ethan who he is 47:00 - Ethan’s love of routine and schedules **(Yay Calendars!)** 49:00 – How wrestling has influenced our professional lives 50:02 – Personality Types and our Myers-Briggs Type differences 51:15 - Ethan’s own "Checklist Manifesto" 53:40 – The advise Ethan would give to a new coach or scientist 54:40 – Why networking is important 57:00 – Never stop reading books 58:30 – “How to Talk so Kids will Listen” Book Recommendation 59:45 – The need for leadership when 60:00 – Tim “Red” Wakeham and Leadership Lessons 1:01:00 – Ethan’s ability to focus out poor information 1:03:00 – How Ethan centers himself when stressed or overwealmed 1:06:30 – Headspace App vs Oak Meditation Apps 1:06:45 – Meditating in the morning versus the evenings 1:09:30 – How to contact Ethan You can catch up with Ethan on Twitter at [@OwensE21](https://www.twitter.com/owense21?ref=adamringler.com) In addition to those social mediums, you can head over to [AdamRingler.com/Newsletter](http://www.adamringler.com/newsletter?ref=adamringler.com) and sign-up for my weekly newsletter. This is a newsletter for the curious. It's chalked full of interesting articles I've read through the week, things I'm exploring and finding fascinating through my week, and a collections of thought experiences and resources I've cultivated. It's essentially a Birchbox for performance-related articles and musings. Thanks again for listening to the Decoding Excellence Show! I appreciate all the support growing this Sport Science, Strength & Conditioning, and High-Performance Coaching resource. If you have taken anything away from the show, please login to iTunes and navigate to the [Decoding Excellence](https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/decoding-excellence/id1205636566?mt=2&ref=adamringler.com) page and leave us a review. --- --- ## Key Takeaways - Learn to ask better questions: analytics is only as good as the question behind it, and the best analysts start with curiosity, not software. - A great teacher can disguise statistical education: the concepts stick when they are wrapped in stories and real problems instead of formulas. - Reading never stops mattering: books, across sport and well beyond it, were a recurring fuel source for Ethan's growth as both coach and analyst. - Networking compounds: relationships built early across coaching and analytics opened doors that credentials alone could not. - Separate signal from noise: the ability to focus out poor information, whether in data or in life, is a skill worth deliberately practicing. ## About the Guest Ethan Owens is an informatics analyst at CareSource in Dayton, Ohio, and a former strength and conditioning coach. He has spent the better part of a decade moving between sport analytics and healthcare analytics, with stops at CoachMePlus, Catapult, and TriHealth, and he holds degrees in physical education, exercise science, and sport physiology. ## Listen and Subscribe Find this episode of the Decoding Excellence Show on [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/decoding-excellence/id1205636566?ref=adamringler.com) and [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/093GVrPwd9l832q3EWhVKc?ref=adamringler.com), or use the player above. --- ## Go Further in This Episode Enjoyed this conversation? Here is how to get more from it: - **Read the transcript below** to revisit key ideas at your own pace. - **Share this episode** with a coach or colleague who would benefit. - **Subscribe to the Decoding Excellence Show** on [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/decoding-excellence/id1205636566?ref=adamringler.com), [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/093GVrPwd9l832q3EWhVKc?ref=adamringler.com), or your favorite app. - **Join the newsletter** at [adamringler.com/newsletter](https://adamringler.com/newsletter/) for weekly insights on human performance. --- ## Episode Transcript *This transcript was automatically generated. While we strive for accuracy, some words or phrases may be misheard.* \[00:00:00\] Sport science, strength and conditioning, high performance coaching, welcome to the Coating Excellence Show. Today on the show I have my good friend Ethan Owens joining me to talk all things analytics and sports and just a random fun conversation about his background and his unique coaching journey. This was a conversation that could have easily gone on for another two hours or so because on what I wanted to talk \[00:01:44\] About on the show had everything from cryptocurrency to strength conditioning to the state of high performance and what that means to personality types and how he uses that data analytics and his progression from basic programming languages onward to more advanced computer languages. This was just a wild show and one of which where I'll have to continue to explore in maybe a part two or a part three of this thing. We end up talking books and some of his favorite recommendations that he would give \[00:02:21\] And just some of the basic advice that he would give to a young strength and conditioning coach starting out in the field today, whether it's strength and conditioning, sports science or data analytics, there's something that you can take away from this conversation. So who is Ethan Owens and why is he on the Coating Excellence Show today? Ethan is currently an informatics analyst in Dayton, Ohio at care source. Ethan has been involved in analytics for the better part of a decade now bouncing back between sport analytics and healthcare analytics. A great combination of both. \[00:02:55\] Before his current position, he held positions at Coach Me Plus, Catapult Sports, and as a data scientist for try health in Cincinnati. Ethan received a bachelor's in physical education and in exercise science from the University of Dayton and a master's degree in sport physiology at East Tennessee State University. So enough with the intro, let's get to the meet and potatoes of this fun Decoding Excellence Show. So without further ado, here's my conversation with Ethan Owens. Ethan, welcome to the show. How are you? Good, man. Thanks for having me. I'm \[00:03:32\] Pretty honored that you would invite me on here. No, man. I am, I've been, this has been an interview that I wanted to do for a while. We've obviously crossed paths of different conventions and clinics and elsewhere, and I've always walked away from our interactions just wanting more from you. So this has been sort of a natural, I think, progression to finally have you on the Decoding Excellence Show and to just kind of get to know you a little bit more. And for the audience to get to know you, if they don't already, then shame on them. But hey, I just want to give you an \[00:04:10\] Opportunity here just to maybe fill in those audience members that haven't gotten to know you or haven't came across your work or seen you elsewhere. What your story is and sort of what your background and your bio is? Sure. Yeah. So I'm a Midwestern kid born and raised in Dayton, Ohio. I ended up a double major at the University of Dayton in K-12 Physical Education and Exercise Science. You had a, he was a year, you had Tyler Friedrich on here. I know like one of your shows this past summer. Yeah. And he's a solid dude, man. I chaffed Tyler. He's just an awesome guy, great coach. \[00:04:55\] I do it's awesome. So it was good to, it was good to see him on here talking up UD a little bit. So shout out to the Alma Mater. So why was it UD? I ended up interning for around three years with their head strength coach, Mark Toby. Toby just said, he's such a, he's such a solid dude. I could go into all kinds of stuff with him. But so after that, I went and got my master's under doctor stone at East Tennessee State. And after that, I went out and did an internship with Coach Callfield at the NSCA and at the Olympic Training Center as well. I was out there and \[00:05:38\] Then I left there to take a position with the Houston Astros and their Appalachian State League. That was sort of wrapping up. And that was like right when Jeff Lurie and all that new staff was coming in. And so I didn't, it didn't sound like I was, there was going to be anything kind of left to jump on after that. So I'll never forget, I got a LinkedIn message from a gentleman in Australia that had CC Meg Stone, so Dr. Stone's wife, if you guys don't know who Meg Stone is, shame on all of you. And she was like, you know, we've had, we have this guy who is in the field and he graduated from \[00:06:23\] Our program, he'd be a great fit. And so that was, he worked at Caterpill at the time. And so after what seemed like 800,000 years worth of interviews and lagged, started at Caterpill and went down there for, went to that journey for a sink around three and a half years. And then it was there. ETSU does a really solid job of introducing technology and analytics into, you know, the strength conditioning in sports science field. And so I had always been really good at excel and things like that and just problem solving and whatnot. And so as I really kind of honed my ability in with \[00:07:15\] Caterpill, my inquisitiveness just continued to grow. And, you know, I self taught myself power pivot in DAX and really wanted to start doing some more advanced stuff with some of the clients at Caterpill. So I really started diving into R. Modern is one of the guys that I continually follow, even though I'm not in sports anymore because he just has great stuff. And so Caterpill, when, you know, they had really, they were really moving and grooving and everything was moving to Chicago and they wanted me to move to Chicago. And my wife is a teacher here in Dayton and a really, \[00:07:58\] Really good school district. And we just couldn't move. It wasn't it wasn't a fit for us. And I was really blessed to get an offer down and Cincinnati at a try health, which is a healthcare provider network on the data science team. And so I worked that for almost a year. Some things happened where the guy that hired me was what was going to bounce and the kind of a long story there. But so I ended up trying, I kept in touch with, you know, all the sports guys anyway. So I went to coach me plus to help those guys. And there's really \[00:08:40\] Trying to advance some of the analytics with those guys and the clients and, you know, try and move some product. And it just wasn't feeding the analytics itch that I had. And funny enough, the guy that I hired me at try health, he got a job up here in Dayton at CareSource, which is a managed care insurance company. And he'd been there for four or five months. And I've been looking at CareSource for ages. And I just didn't know if I'd be a good fit. He got he got there. And within two weeks, he's like, you need to get here. And, you know, \[00:09:17\] Long story short, mail the interview. It actually, it was the best interview I ever had. I left, I've done so much of my research. I looked up, so you get names of people that are going to interview you. And so I looked them up on LinkedIn. You know, I knew like what their majors were, what some where they'd worked previously. And so I just I was well prepared. And it instilled a little bit of a confidence in me. You know, you go on an interview, you're like, oh, you pongers wedding and whatnot. And I just felt good about it. And I've been there since September 10th \[00:09:53\] Of 2016\. And kind of been a little bit tumultuous within the last four or five months. But things are starting to smooth out. And here I am, man. Yeah, no. And the reason not only because I just find you a fascinating guy with a with a rich background and story and your progression, as you've gone through your own career. But, you know, I think we're starting to see, I say start with air quotes like anybody around me can actually see or anybody that's listening this could see it. But like, you know, analytics and statistics and those that sort of \[00:10:34\] Mathematical sort of realm has really infiltrated and money ball that's way into performance training. And I use that word loosely. But knowing that there's so many departments, especially in intercollegiate athletics that are starting to invest and starting to grow in that demands, that there's no other guy that has the fusion, I think, of strengthening conditioning background, the performance training aspect. And also sort of the analytics and statistical side of of their journey that and that just seems to match you. And that's why I wanted to have \[00:11:16\] You on it and kind of pick at that itch a little bit and kind of go down this path and sort of get an idea of, you know, when or where or how did that sort of interest in analytics and stats? Where did that come from? You know, what what what set the scene for that at whether it's home life or early academics or elsewhere? Sure. I've been blessed. My dad was a co-best man in my wedding. I would leave I leave rest and practice twice a week and he drive me up north 40 minutes for another practice. And so, you know, I always I always feel like I a lot to my parents. \[00:12:02\] You know, actually growing up when I was when I was younger, even in high school, I wasn't I wasn't like a math fanboy by any means. I was decent at it. But I got into college. Well, actually, I took my junior year of high school. I took and a Natan Fizz class first my it was first period and then third period was a advanced weight training, which my he's still one of my mentors. He was he is like a true practitioner in my eyes. So, you know, he would he would pass you in CPR and first aid, but he would give you all these scenarios like no pulse, not everything. \[00:12:50\] Right? Well, wait, that's can't have that. He's in right and so like, and if you don't catch that, you like, you know, if you felt he would fail you. Oh my goodness. His name is Mr. Muggy. He's brutal man, but he's great man, great man. So he in that and Natan Fizz class, I was able to start putting things together with context like, Oh, okay, well, it's not just, you know, it's not just a slope. It's a rate of, you know, body mass or something like that. That's probably a bad example. But he really set the example, the the itch for me to, to instead of you looking at math is like \[00:13:33\] A class of, Hey, you can apply this stuff. Yeah. Um, and I remember I remember I went up to him, my junior and I said, Hey, I want to be a high attorney said, you do not want to do that. You want to be a strength coach and I was like, okay. Um, so my sophomore year at UD, we took HSS 220, I think it is. Tyler would probably know this too. And it was, um, it was advanced applications and computer science in sports. I think is what the class was called or something like that, like advanced computers, something in the sports. And essentially, like three fourths of the class \[00:14:13\] Was just manipulating Excel. And it was a kind of a breeze for me. It just all kind of made sense. And it wasn't extremely difficult for me. Um, truthy told, um, I actually like got paid to do a couple of people's projects. So, Hey, man, gotta do what you gotta do. You gotta pay the bail some way, right? Exactly. Exactly. So it was just really easy. And then my senior, one of the more challenging classes was, I think, HSS 405\. And that was, um, statistics and applied mathematics and sport and exercise. And, um, the professor who is now retired, um, so my mentor \[00:14:53\] Teacher from high school, he had him. This guy that teaches that taught the class at UD. And he is, he was just a terrific human being. And, um, he was one of those guys, like when class started at 8am, if you were not in your seat, sorry about it, you miss class. Um, and, but I out, I was, I was, I was very drawn to him because he was, he was a fantastic teacher. And it didn't feel like P values and Z scores. It was like, oh, I'm using this to see if, you know, I have any difference between subjects on the small test. And it just made sense. And so from there, um, \[00:15:35\] You know, all that kind of was fostered more in graduate school. And, um, you know, then gonna keep fast forward. And I would continually, I'm kind of a question asker. As I've gotten order, I've talked to my wife about this all the time about like, I was in high school, like, I always felt like the weird person that would, you know, like, oh, I don't need to be asking questions. Like, and then as you get older, you realize, inquisitiveness is a really freaking good thing. Yeah. Like that should never be stymied. Like asking a question that is like blatant, right? Like, \[00:16:09\] You're asking this question because you didn't do the reading. I wasn't that guy. I was the guy that read. And I was like, well, what about X, Y, and Z? Something that coach Toby at UD kind of got on he once about was he was like, you want to know everything and you want to know it right now. It takes time. And like, I'm, I'm not patient. It's like, I have it in my, I had it in my wedding vows. It's like a huge character fall. I'm very impatient because I do. And that's, so that inquisitiveness just continued to grow. So even when I was with the Astros, like, I was \[00:16:44\] Clocking, you know, contact times to first base. And, you know, just running like basic averages. Like, I was timing, you know, our guys playing toss and trying to run some numbers on, okay, how many innings are my relievers, you know, throwing if they have longer, if they're the guys that have thrown longer toss and practice. And the sample size is small. You know, we paid 41 games in 39 days or something like that. Yeah. So, but it's just, it's just asking questions. And so then you get to catapult and you start getting through all this data. And, you know, I'm setting up \[00:17:21\] All these databases for teams and I'm making these dashboards. And, you know, I'm breaking it sell. And I'm like, well, this is no good. I can't be having this. And so then you get in the, you know, it's a Google search of, well, you know, how can I make, excel more powerful? And so I bought a VBA for dummy's book and like two days into VBA. I'm like, this sucks. It's off. I hate it. It's just clunky. I am not a huge VBA guy. Sorry to anybody who is. And I know, like, I've seen like hardcore VBA Excel files and they are, they're a masterpiece. Yeah. I just, it wasn't for me. \[00:18:00\] I just did not have the time. And so I found power pivot and DAX to be a little more flexible for me and an easier way for me to get through things. So that was like my gap fill, right? Like, I can really get some solid questions answered for our clients with these dashboards I was making before catapult wrote out a cloud product with DAX and some other things. And the learning curve was steep. Like, I didn't learn it all like in one day or a year. It took me a long time at catapult. You know, a lot of times, you know, when you're in front of a client and there's stuff broken and \[00:18:41\] You're trying to get their data exported. And oh, by the way, you need to catch flight. Like, it, you know, it was it was not it was arduous to learn, but it was it was well worth it. And so, you know, towards the toward the end of my catapult journey, I was working really closely with some clients. And I'd been I'd really started going down the analytics path for a while where I was just whether it was Katie, another Katie nuggets or data science central and just I was just reading and just fascinated with all these things that you can do with the machine. And so, \[00:19:23\] That kind of kept fostering my questioning and my inquisitiveness and that kind of has been this that was the snowball. And now here I am, I'm able to do it for living. I'm able to ask questions. I'm able to try and find answers and and it's it's it's what I enjoy to do. I didn't think if you had asked me 10 years ago, my junior year college, I'm like, oh man, I don't I'm not going to sit in front of computer. I'm going to hopefully be at Colorado. Go and you know, things have happened. And I don't I don't I don't have any \[00:19:59\] Regress man. I'm you know, my wife and I bought our first house three. It'll be three years ago. We were I'm blessed man. I can't complain too much. No, I think that's that's such an interesting sort of journey as you've gone through it because, you know, and maybe as an Easter egg and you know, I haven't had anybody ask me the question about sort of the show intro and why there's 56k modem that you know ringtone essentially or boot up sequence. And it's just like for me, that's such an homage to to my pivotal adolescent years where it's like I spent \[00:20:41\] Long more time than I'd like to admit in front of a computer growing up. And you know, as a as a guy that was born in 85\. I mean, I remember like the genesis of the internet. And I remember when there was distributed software via the internet, all legal, of course, it wouldn't ever, you know, I would never dare to to download wares or pirated software. But like never, never ever. I never ever. Everything was fully I got the receipts. I'm sure somewhere. But that was such a huge part of my sort of, I think, inquisitiveness much like yours is like I got to \[00:21:21\] Experiment. I got to play with these different softwares. I get to play with things that and then sort of physically and mentally ask questions of what, what, what could this do or how could I do this or oh, boy, I would really learn to love C and or visual basic and then see and see plus plus and then and to continue to move on. And then, you know, I got to Wichita stay and it was very similar. It's like, boy, I should probably write down all this training information somewhere. Let me just put it in Excel and I'll put it in a table. And then it the \[00:21:54\] The progression was like, wow, I'd really like to, you know, I really like. Yeah, like I want to make this a little bit more simpler. Maybe I can make a pivot chart, you know, and then and then it's like, well, I would really love to run some regressions and and some more advanced stats and rather than breaking the, you know, 8,000 line database. I've sort of built on an Excel sheet. Well, maybe there's a better way of that could speed some of this up. And I think the progression just sort of continues as you continue to find like boy, there has to be a better way of doing this. \[00:22:30\] And then you do your, you know, Google searches and you're like, wow, I really don't know anything about R. Maybe I should start to read on that or learn a little bit more. And it sounds like that inquisitiveness was was a similar progression for yourself. Yeah, I wish I wish that I could go back and slap the younger me when it comes to being so so conscious about asking questions. Because I was that kid in college, too, that was, you know, like, oh, I don't, I read. Yes, I didn't go out and don't be wrong. I had fun at college, but I was the guy that did the readings \[00:23:14\] And stuff. And so that was the one thing, like for me, that was relieving those. When I got into grad school, everybody read. And it wasn't like everybody read. It was like guys were reading what they needed for class, but then they were also reading blogs, and they were also reading manuals, and they were also reading anything. That, that for me, especially over the last, probably, well, I'd say when I got engaged, which would have been, I guess, eight years ago, um, yes, five years. Sorry, I got to get mad. It's, uh, I always showed my wife. It's the \[00:23:57\] Plus hundred years. So when I got, so before graduate school, which was 2000, um, it was 2009, so nine years ago, um, I got rebabtized and, uh, I told myself, I'm going to read the Bible, covered, covered. And I don't care how long it takes me, but I'm going to do it. And, um, you being a fellow wrestler, you can understand that when you put your mind to something, you're either going to run through the wall, you're going to run over the wall, you're going to lack out from banging your head against the wall, but you're going to do it. Somehow, by God, \[00:24:34\] You're going to do it. Um, and so that was, it took me up to getting married, which would have been five years ago, um, to, to finish it. Because at that time, like, I, I'd, I'd start a catapult, I was in graduate school. I was with Astros and that the NSEA. And so, um, it, but it was a really good, it was good for me to, to just keep chopping away at it, right? Like, I would read, you know, in the old testament, like those books are a law, right? And Psalms takes forever, but like, you get to the New Testament and you're just like, and sometimes I'd read 10 pages and I, \[00:25:13\] Sometimes I might only get through a couple of verses, but it was a, it was great for me. And once I finished that, uh, as I was, and as I've continued to grow, I, I get, I get weird fun reads. So, and you and I have talked about this, my fun read, I guess you could say is economics. Um, so I would just started reading more. And, you know, I'd go back to what you'd kind of push back to me just now, which was the inquisitiveness is, is it, it's a, it's a thirst, it's a thirst for knowledge. And that, it's, it's a, it's a drive, it's a blessing on a curse for me, \[00:25:53\] Because it continually drives me. It, um, it continues to mold who I am as a person as an analyst. Um, it's, it's wanting to know whatever it is. I, I, and so it drives, it's a driver. Um, and so you keep asking questions, you keep reading, you keep reading, you keep reading, and you just evolve. It was, since we're talking about a little bit about reading, um, I'd love to sort of ask you, I mean, like, what are you reading right now? What it has been? Maybe some influential books that you've read, and it could be for, you know, leisure or professional development or anything like \[00:26:35\] That, but if somebody were to, you know, walk through your office right now and, and peer at your bookshelf, what's on there? And, and what would you recommend to them? Sure. Well, I'm looking at it right now. Um, so, uh, because you are, uh, in the, the sports science field, I can tell you, some of my all-time favorites, um, Dr. Stone, um, his wife, Megan, Dr. Sands book. I think it's print. Um, oh gosh, I have to google it right now because it's going to drive me crazy. Um, um, um, that book, um, is a rock solid, um, biological view of training, um, principles and \[00:27:23\] Practice of resistance training. Ah, yeah. So shout out to Dr., shout out to Dr. Stone, as always. Um, that's really good. Um, periodization, uh, by Bompon Haugh, because I'm kind of going through here, so I'm going to answer questions. Yeah. Let's go, strength conditioning and sports science. Um, fitness and soccer, Dave Tenney's book was fantastic. I thought that was wonderful. Um, the Negum Hika's, uh, tapering and peaking, um, and then tri-facic training, uh, cowbeats and Ben Peterson. Yeah. Um, and there's probably some more I'm forgetting there, but those are the ones \[00:28:02\] Off the top of my head that are like rock solid that I actually, that I, I keep. Um, actually, I, I, I just donated some of my books to my old mentors teacher from high school, um, but I kept those books. And, um, oh man, it came out a couple of years ago. Um, I think his name is, is it David? He's, uh, it was a soft, it was a, it was a softback, um, taggone it. I'm kind of butcher the book and the name, so I apologize. Yeah, we can always add it to the show notes for, um, you know, so, so leisure or like non-string conditioning, um, Atlas drug by Iron Rand is the best novel I've \[00:28:46\] Ever read. It's incredible. Um, it's, it's, it's a, it's a novel, but it's based in economics. It's fantastic. Um, I read a book in high school called Night by Ellie Weisel. He is a Holocaust survivor. It is still one of my top five books of all time. It's a short read, but what book? It's called Night. Night. Okay. And, um, if you search, if you search the book and then the author, like he's in a famous picture, um, I think he was at Auschwitz, but, um, it, it, it's just, I was not a huge reader in high school, and I toured to do that book in a day. It, it, to me, it was \[00:29:28\] That good. Um, funny read here. Um, so in Dayton, we live close to Wright Patterson Air Force space. So shout out to Dayton founders of aviation. Don't let, don't let Katie on North Carolina pick that though. Take it away from you guys. That's right. That's right. So, um, supposedly after the Rosswell, when New Mexico crash in 1951, they quote unquote transferred the body of the alien to Wright Pat. Not, I'm gonna say that I'm drinking that Kool-Aid, but there's a book called Area 51, The Real Story Wright Pat. It's, it's on my bookshelf right now. Um, and then \[00:30:10\] Charles Wheeling's naked economics and naked statistics are on there. Charles is so great. Yeah. The book I'm reading right now. So, um, I, I just finished a book called High Percentage Fishing. Um, yes, I still compete. Um, I just, it's to compete with myself. So I fish a lot if I can. Um, but I just finished that book. The book I'm reading right now is called The Skeptical Environmentalist. Okay. By Bjorn, Bjorn Lombard. Okay. He is a statistics professor in Norway, I believe. Um, so he used to work for Greenpeace and it basically, he is, \[00:30:48\] He uses the book to basically say, is the environment as bad as what we see on the media? No. Is it great? No. And he uses data after data point, after data point to, to essentially put stock in his claim, it's, it's a really fascinating read. Um, I'm very fascinated by that right now. So my wife and I, um, we're going to try, we've got a garden that we're going to put out this year. So, you know, we've really, with our house, we've, we've done so much work into it and we've tried to get really energy efficient, um, with some stuff. Um, and, uh, so that is one \[00:31:31\] Read right now, but I can tell you because I am that guy. Um, I have a, a book list that I have, uh, I can tell you over the last, um, some on ears, um, the books that I've read. That's awesome. I, I usually register the books I read like in good reads. Um, and then I sort of, I have to go back and be like, oh, shoot, I, uh, have an update of this in six months and, and add books in, uh, and Brit. Yeah. Go ahead. Can I give a couple like recommendations? So part of some of this, I stick from modern search apps, modern, um, but anything to lab rights is, is, is, is amazing. And, \[00:32:11\] And it, it usually takes me a couple of times to read it over, um, but, um, his, his, his stuff is fantastic. Um, because I've gotten into economics, anything Thomas Sol writes is golden. Um, so basic economics and the Thomas Sol reader are fantastic. Um, the checklist manifesto by a tool galandi. Wonderful. Um, to all of those folks who are not Ohio State fans, um, it's going to be tough to sit for you to read it, but above the line, which is Urban Myers book is one of the best leadership books I've ever read. Um, I've actually tried to, I've talked about some of his major \[00:32:53\] Concepts like alignment, um, at work and kind of continue to reinforce that, uh, change or die by Alan Deutschman is really good. Um, all the Gladwell stuff is just a fun read. Um, guns, germs, and steel, the fates of human society by Jared Diamond is really good. Um, and then, um, making sure I don't have some crossing thing. Alan Turing, um, so he was a guy basically invented a monocomputer. Yeah. He's got a, there's a book called Turing's Cathedral, the origins of the digital universe by George \[00:33:34\] Dyson, and it's, it is fantastic. Uh, I'm going to have to check some of those out. Uh, I'll send you my list. Yeah. Yeah. There's a couple books that there's one of that I want to read. Um, you referenced, uh, night, and it's, uh, in a similar sort of context, but Victor Frankl's man search, man search for meaning. I've heard 1946 about World War II, Auschwitz concentration camp. But I've heard that being highly recommended as just a necessary read in, in anybody's person's life. Um, haven't read it. That's not much to do with this. Recently, or continuing to work through, I, \[00:34:20\] I love it. It's just that sometimes the kids pull me in a different direction. But uh, Bayesian data analysts or analysis, uh, second edition, um, so one with the sort of goofy dogs on it. Love that one. Yeah, I, I should, sorry, I should reference that I do, there's an oh Riley book called doing data science that is like a really good introduction to data science. It's, it's good. Anything Oh, Riley puts out. Oh, Riley is a, sorry. No, that's a, that's a stupid great resource. Um, what else? What else? What else? There's a couple of things I thought, um, you are be recommended. \[00:35:00\] Uh, I think you did, right? Data smart, John Foreman, maybe. Uh, I didn't, but I follow him on Twitter and he is wonderful. Yeah, he's super good book. Um, and then then maybe what was the last one that I've, so, oh, uh, and I'm actually re going through this one, but, and I recommended on a different show, but the gene, um, which was like Bill Gates's 2017 or 16, uh, best book that he read. So I, I was like, I got to read it. Um, and it's amazing. I think it's, I, I always butcher the guys as pronunciation, but so d'arth, uh, Mahiji, um, he wrote the bio, or the, uh, biography of cancer. \[00:35:45\] And it's just sort of this, this, that particular book was like a sort of a story narrative, but educational story about cancer. And this one is the very same, the origins, the genesis, how it was used for good, how it was used for bad, uh, of our, under human understanding of the gene. And it is awesome. And it's a long read. So, um, but it's, it's one that I didn't want to put down and then picked it back up once I finished. I was like, can I reread this book with the same, uh, you know, uh, mine that I first had prior to reading it because I just wanted to enjoy it all over \[00:36:22\] Again. But so you, you've talked a little bit about not only professional reading and some leisure reading. What are, what are the resources as you go through just, you know, as you're scratching your own itch, as you're sort of wanting to either refine your inquisitiveness or your understanding of a concept, whether it's blogs or articles or podcasts. I mean, what, what are the things are you consuming, I suppose, uh, that you find, you know, of great interest? Sure. Um, so as I mentioned, I still go to modern blog quite a bit just because he's such a good \[00:37:00\] Resource, he's so sharp, uh, his explanation of the things are just, are spot on. So, um, I do a lot with, um, the Stanford Loginitas online. Um, I'll, I do some stuff there. Um, data camp is, I mean, if you want to learn a new scripting language, it, you just can't, in my opinion, you can't beat it. Um, in Coursera, so those are like the three online, like, big, like, I guess you could say like formal education things that I'll go to. Um, you know, my, my wife has gotten on to me about it, and I, I personally, it is a struggle for me. It goes back to that, that drive of wanting to know, \[00:37:46\] Wanting to know, like having such a thirst for knowledge. Um, so like, one of the things I struggle with is like, turning it off, right? And I know you tweet all the time about like, turning technology off and things like that. I'm one of those dudes that like, I will stay on my phone and reading on my phone till I drink my protein shake pour bed. Um, I use Twitter not too much for social media anymore. I use it to follow smart guys like you and Lawton and O'Reilly media and those type of things. Um, Carl Valley puts out some really good stuff, you know, and simply faster. I, I, \[00:38:24\] I use, I use Twitter a lot as, uh, as a, as a starting point for stuff. Um, if we're talking, like, strictly analytics and things like that, I usually start, um, with Twitter, whether that be the Katie Nuggets page or, um, the O'Reilly page. Um, and I will go to, um, Microsoft quite a bit. They're really, they're really, especially with what they're doing in Power BI and I'm, I'm, I'm putting out a lot of, I'm using it. I'm using it quite a bit in my current job. Um, so they put out a lot of really good, good content, especially since they bought my, um, uh, \[00:39:10\] They bought M ran. Um, so I, I'll go there a lot. Um, those are like the things off the top of my head that I know I'll start with. And fun enough, uh, I'll Google something and start with Wikipedia. Yeah. I think those, those are like good starting points too, you know, like just to start like from a 30,000 foot view and then it, it funnels you down into more precise information. Right. Yeah. I, I would never reference Wikipedia, right? But like, okay, if I want to learn, you know, I remember a while ago, I was wanting to look, I wanted to investigate and look at \[00:39:49\] Some stuff with principal component analysis. So I started with Wikipedia, right? And then it'll take you to all those different hyperlinks and then you can kind of get into some more formal things. So I, I, I, yeah, I very much follow the funnel, the funnel idea when it comes to that kind of stuff. So you've held roles both that coach me plus and, and catapult and you've already mentioned, uh, you know, starting in Microsoft and, you know, Microsoft obviously came out and they had power BI. Didn't they also, I mean, didn't they have like a sport platform that they were \[00:40:22\] Launching in 16 or 17? Was that a coach and cluster? Uh, Microsoft, believe it or not. Hmm. Yeah, yeah. Um, I think it was, um, Patrick, uh, he's, uh, he's the sea hawks. Oh, I'm gonna. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. No, I, uh, what? Microsoft debut sports performance platform. Patrick, Patrick Ward. Yep. Um, he had tweeted out something, um, or maybe it was Carl that tweeted out something about that, you know, that Microsoft had started something like that. Actually, um, it's funny because when I was, uh, with catapult and I was installing North Carolina Chapel Hill, \[00:41:09\] Um, they had a guy that was, I think he was a econ finance major. And he wanted to get out to Seattle to work to, to get out there and actually, um, when that, when that platform launched, I reached out to him and he's like, yeah, I ended up helping with some stuff on that. So, small world. But, um, yes, they did, they did, I know Microsoft did launch the platform. I couldn't tell you a ton about it. Um, I know it was kept under wraps for quite a while with the sea hawks and like dev. Yeah. Um, but I don't know if they, I know they've, I've seen media on it, \[00:41:47\] But I couldn't tell you like if you go buy it. If it's in the wild, yeah, that's what I was wondering. It looked like it was like some sort of skunk work, sort of garage type, uh, initiative. And I'm just wondering if they've ever made, made it into the market quite yet in some ways, uh, to compete against me, that they haven't because, um, uh, and this is by, this isn't meant to be like a slide on any of the AMS platforms. But if you can teach yourself DAX and a little bit of VBDA, you know, especially now with the, the capabilities of Power BI. I mean, yeah, the, the largest Power BI \[00:42:27\] File you can have is 10 gigs. That's a lot of data. I don't know if any team outside of them getting the, the raw data, raw data. Yeah. Right. Like I don't know if any team crunched through 10 gigs of data in a season, let alone, I mean, maybe Dave Taney was when he was with the sounders. Yeah. And they, you know, when they had years and years of polar and HRV and GPS and on this data, but I don't know if any sports teams crushing through 10 gigs of data unless they throw in some video. We run the heck out of our force plates and all the laws and we're not even \[00:43:06\] Anywhere, not even anywhere near, uh, a gig yet. Um, you know, we have, um, we pulled 15 months worth of claims. And that equates to about 30 million rows. Um, and our Power BI file is just a, just shy of one gig. Wow. And that's third in rows. Dang. So you mentioned a couple online resources. Um, and just because it's kind of fun conversation, the latest sort of thing that I've been rapidly consuming on commutes, um, a sort of in your field, uh, but have been entertaining, not only because of the stories, but also, uh, just because it makes me ask questions as well. But \[00:43:58\] I'm curious, uh, what's the data point? It's, uh, forget the guys Gotham Gazette, I think does a podcast that is a fun one, um, data skeptic, uh, is a really, really good one, uh, that I just, just recently came across and it's, uh, they have many episodes for people that might not be as, uh, you know, classically trained like yourself, uh, that has that sort of rich background to start to understand some of the basics, uh, of statistics and how to perform some of this. And then partially derivative is another one. That's fantastic. Yes. I do. The subscriber that one, that one's \[00:44:40\] Good. That one's awesome. That one's awesome. So what I, I guess, as we continue to go down this way, like what outside of the Ethan Owens performance coach, uh, informatics analysts, what, what are some other things that, you know, unusual habits or, or just personality about who you are that makes you you know, like this is the decoding excellence show sort of a weird show in that. It's a show that's, it's less about subject matter, right? We could talk all we want about power BI and how we're running what we're doing. But that's, there's so many other great shows that do \[00:45:19\] That. And I want to get to know the practitioner behind the greatness of what they do. And so, I'll turn that question around. I mean, what, what makes you uniquely you, what makes you, what are some unusual things that maybe somebody doesn't get to know about you that until they sit down and have a beer with you that they're like, oh, man, I didn't know this about you. \[00:45:41\] Well, uh, I am, I'm pretty high strung honestly. Yeah, you would be both. Uh, it's, it's, uh, it's some, I'm, I'm pretty, I'm, I'm, I'm really driven. So, and I've, I've gotten that way from being, um, I mean, I wrestled for 12 years. So, um, I don't know, there's some things I'm just kind of set in my ways. I'm, I'm very disciplined and I like rigidity. Yeah. So, you know, four days a week, I'm up at 5 a.m. Um, I, I try to get done both my workouts in the office by eight, right? Like, I, I like, I like being on a schedule. So, \[00:46:25\] There's a lot of things that I guess you can say make me me. I, I, I, I, I crave, I crave structure when I can get it. Uh, it helps me. Um, it, it just, when I have a structure and I've got a plan, it, it blocks out a lot of the ways that a company is every day life. So, um, you know, discipline, um, schedules, you know, I, especially when I was with catapult, I lived through my, my calendar phone, or the phone, the calendar on my phone. And I still do that. My wife and I, we share calendars with Google. So, you know, I know when she's going to yoga, she knows, \[00:47:09\] You know, if I've got a doctor's appointment or something like that, um, I, I'll go back to my parents. Um, and I, I've told this in every interview, I am not the smartest guy. Like, if you're wanting to talk to some computer expert, go talk to a lot, or if you want to talk like performance, talk to you or, or other guys in the field, I am not that guy. I, I come from a middle class family, uh, where my, my, my parents both work hourly jobs. And they, I just know how to work. More than anything, um, I know how to work, uh, extremely, extremely hard. Um, sometimes \[00:47:58\] That's detrimental. It has been for me previously, but, um, that's what I know how to do more than anything. I know how to grind. Um, and I don't know if that's the wrestler in me. If that wasn't stilled from my parents, um, I think it's probably a combination of everything. Um, and, and again, kind of a character fall, but fear, um, I, I've failed a lot, and I've learned from it, but I don't like it. I, uh, it goes back to being competitive for me. I like to be successful. I like to win. So those are things that have driven me to succeed. Um, the, that's kind of a, a kind of a, \[00:48:36\] Yeah, no, I, I think it has to be a combination of both, right? Like not only you're up bringing in and your parents and the influences and the mentors of your life, but certainly if there's a sport that brings that out, wrestling is, uh, you know, it is shared passion, probably of both of ours. That was that right after team warm-ups, uh, at Colorado Springs when our volleyball team went down for, uh, uh, their preseason camp. Um, you know, I walked through the wrestling room and I think I spent, you know, 30 minutes in there just looking at the pictures of different wrestlers and different \[00:49:10\] Grades and Olympians that, uh, wrestled, um, there. And it was just amazing. I mean, I've read, um, if you've read, if you've never read and never stopped pushing, we long gardeners book, it's good. And then no excuses about Kyle Maynard. He's the, he's the, he's the quadriplegic from Georgia that, um, that wrestled. Um, yeah, it's, it's just all those things that have come together. Like I said, it's sometimes I think it's a blessing on a curse, uh, just because you, you, you push and you push, um, we did a, a care source. We have, it's called care source university, um, \[00:49:50\] But we've taken, they offer essentially like training and development. And so like I've taken an emotional intelligence class and then, um, I've taken the Myers-Briggs. Yeah. I don't know if anyone, you know, I assume a lot of people know about the Myers-Briggs, but, um, I'm, I'm an ESTJ. So, um, ESTJ, yeah. I am. Yeah. I, I, I am typically an I in TJ, believe it or not. I, really. Yeah. So I, I'm border on the E and I, um, when I really need to focus or things like that, I'm a pretty hardcore I, but, uh, I, um, it just depends kind of on the situation. Um, and \[00:50:33\] I'm part of that too is, uh, I took a class, the Strength Finder's class, um, and I think like my top five teachers like Achiever Discipline Commitment, and I can't remember the other two. I'll tell my head, but I haven't written one board, but like, when I, I brought a home, I read them to my wife and she's like, that's you to a tee. And, and they are, um, I like to, you know, every day, when I get, every Monday, when I get in the office, I open up one note and I create, uh, I create a sheet for every day. And I have, it's a daily to-do list. Um, and I put the check boxes on them because \[00:51:11\] I like to check the boxes off. It helps keep me focused on where I need to go. What do I need to get done? Um, and that, I've always been like that. I think another good, uh, book recommendation for you outside of Rulans never stop pushing, but it, I'd be remiss if I didn't say, uh, Dan Gables book, a wrestling life. Was it also another, uh, rather recent read, I think in the last maybe three or four years, but yeah, I, I, it's, it's on my to read list, uh, actually, um, I, I'll get to it, uh, you know, growing up him and Kale Sanderson or just guys out, just like, oh man, if I, that's who I \[00:51:54\] Want to be, right? Like I want to be 159 and 0\. Right. Yeah. I, uh, I remember literally, there's, uh, a softback book that was literally like my Bible growing up through, uh, junior high and high school. And it was Dan Babe, Dan Gables, uh, coaching wrestling successfully. I didn't even think that I wanted to go into coaching, but I think that really laid the groundwork. Uh, I could almost guarantee you, I, at that era, I didn't want to be a coach. I didn't even know, uh, it wasn't on my radar, but it talked a lot about the administration and, and some of, uh, the exes and owes of being a coach. \[00:52:32\] Um, yeah, I just kind of connected the dots there, uh, crazy. Um, but, you know, with somebody with your background and your experience and you've, you've been in a strengthening conditioning, you've been in the grind of it. You've gone through that. You've appreciated, uh, the, the good that can come from it, the negative aspects that can come from it. You've done another, uh, you've gone this direction where it now it's a little bit more in the science and the, the, the analytics and the data. You know, it's so whether it's a fusion, if you're talking to the, the quasi-sport \[00:53:07\] Scientists or the applied sports scientists that, that are in-strength conditioning, or you're talking to the pure strength conditioning coach, you know, there's a lot of people that listen to this show and I would just be curious, you know, what advice would you give to someone that's just starting off in this field, either pathway, uh, you know, as they're graduating from a graduate assistantship or just about to start a graduate assistantship? What advice would you give to that sort of new young sports scientists or strength conditioning coach? \[00:53:38\] You know, one of the things I did, uh, I didn't grasp until I was in my last semester graduate school and I was applying for it, I, my thesis was almost what it would practically finish, right? Like, I essentially just had to defend it and then make the edits and I was applying to any job that I could get and I remember, it's, maybe it was like October and November, um, shout out to one of the guys that, uh, I still didn't contact with Andy Altoff at Baylor. I remember I had a phone interview with Toth and I didn't get it and it was for a paid internship \[00:54:22\] Down there. And now, like, he's, I, that guy is fantastic. Those guys now do such a good job and, uh, I wish I would have understood the importance of networking. Even now, I don't know if I would be a care source, if I, if I didn't have the network that I had, right? I, I, not saying that network is everything, but when you can, when you have personal relationships and you know people and they can vouch for you, that, that makes such a difference. Um, and I don't want to say be patient, but one kind of what I had touched on earlier with Coach Tobi at UD saying, you know, \[00:55:08\] You've got to, you don't have to know everything right now. You don't, um, be a sponge, man, when you're in, if you're an intern and you're, um, you know, all you have, uh, Tyler talked about it. But, uh, when I was at UD, uh, one summer, Coach Tobi made me, um, strip and, uh, staying all the platforms and the dungeon gym, like Tyler had to do. And that same summer, he also made me clean here. The ductwork, uh, which was gross. I don't wish that on anyone. But, um, so don't, don't, don't soak up this, but don't soak up the inhalations. But, um, when you're, when you \[00:55:52\] Are an intern, um, and you have a chance to watch really good coaches work, uh, and I, I, I've heard you talk about it. You used to have a, a, a notepad that you would write in at the end of the day or you'd take around with you, take notes, man, whether that be right, I'm down or, like, if, but watch, be intent and, and, and what you're doing when you're in that position, because when you're in a position like yours, you have to make decisions that, you know, sometimes could cost you your job. Whereas like an intern, you can watch really good coaches \[00:56:32\] Develop relationships, give coaching cues, uh, those type of things, I think those two things, networking and, and, and absorbing what you're in, um, are two heavy hitters for, for up and coming, you know, undergraduate strength coaches. And the third would be never stop reading, read, and, I mean, not, not just the field, but read. Yeah. It, it's going to make you a better coach. Like, if I, I know one of my really good friends from graduate school, um, he still reads, uh, he, he still reads, uh, a lot of the strength conditioning and sports science stuff, but he reads a lot of \[00:57:20\] Emotional intelligence and, um, behavior stuff because he's trying, because he wants to connect with his players more. Yeah. And, right? So like, it's out that he's not reading. He's just not reading strength conditioning every day. And I, when I was younger, that's what I thought it all was. I had to read research papers, journal strength conditioning research. I had to read, you know, anything that, you know, came out from human kinetics. And you know, I thought that you don't have to read that stuff. That's not important. But when you can be a more well rounded, you connect \[00:57:52\] Better with people, it's easier to, uh, to have empathy for other people. Those things matter. Yeah. There's, uh, you know, there's so much I could chew on that. Uh, but I also found very similarly, you know, like reading outside of just the human kinetics and strength conditioning. There was a book that I read recently. Uh, now I do have, you know, young children, but that, there was so many parallels between coaching and this sort of quasi parenting book. But it's Adele Faber's, I think her name's Elaine, um, co-author, but how to talk so kids will listen \[00:58:31\] And listen so kids will talk. And I was like an amazing read about communication gaps that exist between, uh, parents and children, but also there's some similarities between the communication gaps that sits between coaches and athletes. Um, I, I wish there, there's things that I've realized, uh, especially being in the, in the, in the role that I am now, you know, care source stood up, two markets last year. Um, we crossed two million members. Um, and, and there are two things, Adam, that, uh, I just want to touch on there because you're talking about communicating. \[00:59:14\] I did not understand the value of communicating till I got to, I got to care source and got really involved with some matrix teams and realized how valuable communication and documentation were. And the other thing is I'd never understood the value of leadership until our director, um, she, she left, uh, uh, a few months ago. And so we've had this void with the director and, man, it's been rough. Uh, and you know, I don't, I don't sports is probably different, but if you are a young string coach or you have a good leader, you know, Tom, thanks. \[00:59:58\] Yeah, for sure. There's, there's a, a figure and mentor still very much in my life that I feel fortunate enough, just, you know, that not only it was at the university, it was at, uh, that was already going to do my master's at that accepted me in interned and, but, uh, Tim Redwakam at Michigan State University, uh, just not only a tremendous job on the X's and O's of strength conditioning, but probably an even better job of the leadership development and the ability to communicate. And he's done a number of different podcasts and different, uh, \[01:00:32\] Publications on that. And I just think it's a, it's an undervalued skill until it's needed. And then unless you've, you know, like worked it and cultivated that ability, you just, you don't, you just don't know how to do it as well. And those that I find in this field and this profession that has such longevity and that's been doing it and doing it really, really well have really mastered that ability to, to do those things and do that, uh, and have that effective communication. I know I'm, I'm stretching you on time a little bit. So I want to kind \[01:01:06\] Of, no, no, no, no, you're fine, man. I want to, uh, to ask in, in similar vein, I mean, is there any sort of recommendations that you hear, you read, you see, retweeted that you, you wonder, man, you know, I don't know if that's the best advice, you know, like that's, runs counter to my experience. You don't have to name anybody or do anything, but like just bad recommendations you hear in the profession. Um, man, I, I would have to think about that to be honest with you because so much of, so much of my time that I sent, I spent online is searching for resources. \[01:01:46\] Um, a lot of times if I see something that I, that I, uh, I, I'll usually kind of just skip over. Um, so I, I honestly, I can get back to you on it, uh, but I really have to think about that. That, sir, I, uh, I admire because, you know, it's, it's very easy to sort of get, uh, to get overwhelmed by the noise, um, and not concentrate on so much on the signal. So the, uh, your ability to rise above some of that and, uh, and not have to, uh, be bogged down by it is, is admirable. What about, you know, I always asked this question to people and I, \[01:02:30\] I think it's, it's a way for me to continue to try to refine my own best practices, but you talked about, you know, like unusual habits and how you're driven and how you might not be the most patient person. But I mean, I, I sort of asked myself, you know, when, when you feel overwhelmed if you do, right, or if you ever feel on focus at work or anything like that, you know, what do you do to try to reconnect or to try to regain some of that focus? Are there habits you do, things you do to center yourself? I mean, what's that look like for you? \[01:03:04\] Great question. So, um, I actually, um, in my travels, especially with catapult, you know, I, I talked to Andy, I'll talk about that quite a bit. Um, I think I know where you're going with this. I, I hope you go down this path, but I, it is, it's extremely difficult for me. And one of the things that I see Andy continually tweet about is, is mindfulness and, and, you know, Andy talks very openly about how he is such a believer in meditation. So I'm going to kind of go down that route, but it's going to stop right there. Because I, and I will, I, I'm going to continue to try, \[01:03:47\] But for easily two years, I have tried meditation and I go in and out and I go off and on. It is extremely, it's extremely difficult for me to, I don't want to say, yes, part of it is, I don't prioritize it. Um, part of it is over the last three years, since we bought our house, I was coming home and I was renovating something, either whether that was, I was painting. Yeah. Um, I mean, we've read on everything but the kitchen. So that pressure to get, to be that, to be the, the, the man, right, the man in the house you could say, right? So like, I, I feel that, um, I was raised that way, \[01:04:29\] You know, my dad, that's just how my dad is and I, I have a little bit of that. I struggle extremely hard with that, um, and I don't care to say that. So the one thing, especially over the last year, since last spring, I had a phenomenal fishing trip and, um, I've always loved fish. And I never felt like I had the time or the financial ability to, to do what I really wanted to do with it. And over the last year, I, I have fished more than I ever have. And that has helped me, that is my meditation. Um, so you, we go back to that like, versus I and the Myers-Briggs. Yeah. \[01:05:12\] When, uh, if I can, if I can fish, I'm gonna go and my wife actually said it, uh, this past summer, she said, or she said, you know, you're, you're fishing a lot. You're fishing more than I think you ever have. I, not only do I enjoy it, but it helps me in, in ways that I think meditation helps other people. I don't, I don't have to, I don't have to think about, you know, what I have to do at work or at home or, you know, could I have done something different at work. All I got to think about is my line in the water. Yeah. I think, and that has helped me immensely. And the other thing, \[01:05:52\] And it's, it's super funny. I love to know my grass, because it's easy. It's just push the mower, cut grass. There's something ritualistic about it, where it's, you know, very much like Zen Buddhist raking the sand. You know, it's just a very passive, but, you know, mindful, sort of engaging aspect of it, where you can sort of disconnect, but still, still get something from it. You know, Toth talked a lot about headspace.com. And I think that's where we first sort of, we first came across and two pro tips for you. I, I love headspace. I love Andy and the product \[01:06:33\] That he put out. It is, can be cost prohibitive. And that sort of struck me, I wish it was a lower price point. Kevin Rose, who was a Silicon entrepreneur for a while, Silicon Valley. I think it might be in New York or move back to the bay, but he has a phenomenal product called oak. That is free. And very similar, similar guided meditation app that I, I've sort of, transitioned away from headspace and started to use oak often. But I do like the, the customized packages of headspace. Second thing, and similar pressures, I get home from work, a lot to do, \[01:07:14\] Seeing the kids. I'm being fully engaged with them. Smartphones are up. So very hard for me to find any sort of time or white space to do it. I found that I'm most successful when I wake up a little earlier and then do it in the morning. Because the day just runs amuck when you come home and especially with you with a house that you're, you know, redoing or adding renovations to or what, whatnot that, you know, there's always something on the honey do list that it's hard to, you know, like that's kind of who we are. We're gonna, we're gonna take care of the house. We're gonna do \[01:07:51\] What we need to do and we'll tackle that to do list. So it's hard to, you know, I think it's sort of self-sacrificing where you're like, I can't sit and meditate. That seems crazy. I got these things I need to do for my family where shifting it into the morning has been, I've found a time where I've been much, much more consistent with that practice. I've, I work with a guy who left a care source, but he meditated every morning and he said, he said he got a lot out of it. \[01:08:26\] Again, going back to that routine, I, I, I'll definitely think about it. I, I just have a certain, I, I don't know if the morning would be optimal for me because of what I have to do, but I'm, I'm definitely gonna consider it because I, I go, like I said, I struggle with it. I go back and forth. Yeah, a couple of different things and I just to wrap this up and I, I just want to thank you so much for being on the show because, you know, this is, I, I, I almost wanted to do like a round two and I don't, I don't know if I want to record it or I just want to like drive or \[01:09:03\] Fly there and just like find a pub and sit down and, and chat with you because I feel like this could go on for seven hours and, and, and hopefully the audience maybe took something away from it. And if not, I, I've always just enjoyed having the conversation with you, but I always want to turn this over and say, is there any sort of particular ask or if somebody had a question and they, they were like, man, you recommended this book, you, you started talking about this or there's some resource or I'm a young, um, analyst and I'm just graduating. I want to get into the field. \[01:09:36\] Is there something they can do and, and ask of this audience? And then what is a good way for them to get in contact with you or, or to reach out to you? Sure, um, my personal email is ethandethn.n so m is in may. Oens owens at gmail.com and, um, you can hit me up on twitter too. Um, my twitter handle is escaping me for some reason. Uh, it is oens owens e21\. Um, feel free to reach out to those, uh, your best bet would be, uh, email just because I'll, I'll be quicker to get back to those. I, \[01:10:22\] Again, I use twitter mostly for retweets and favorites of articles that, that I want to read. Um, so those are those are the two best ways. Okay. Yeah, I'll, I'll make sure I'll link to your twitter. I'll save you the potential 100 of spam emails you might get if I were to put that on the your email and the internet, uh, or the internets for, uh, the bots, the Russian bots to scan and find. So they are real. Did you did, if you didn't, I'll have to try and find it. There was, I believe a Washington post article that, um, it basically laid out, you know, not necessarily \[01:11:07\] The hacking, but the, these guys like over in the Ukraine, essentially, we're creating all these fake accounts and just blasting social media with these really fake news are, yeah, it's, it's incredible. It, it don't, you know, they reminded me, boy, what was the, uh, it was a Silicon Valley, uh, click farm, uh, of the show, the HBO show Silicon Valley. And it was, uh, click farms, and they were using, uh, these, I think it was a Bangladesh click farm to, uh, inflate their subscribers so that they could IPO and add a particular, you know, hey, we've had this growth \[01:11:45\] Trajectory for our software or app that we've been developing, but to think that that does not exist, um, from a social media standpoint and then to create bot farms that can actually do that is, uh, I mean, yeah, it's a, it's a medium that's ripe for, um, corruption, unless there's some sort of supervision or some, some way of actually understanding that. And, you know, a lot of those times, you, you look at those accounts and it's the Easter egg, and it's, you know, one follower, no followers, and it's the same sort of, uh, \[01:12:20\] Verbiage over and over and over again, you can, oh, okay, it doesn't take too much to, uh, to put those two together, but some are clever, some are, yeah, yeah, some are good. Ethan, man, I wanted to thank you for coming on the show. I honestly feel like this conversation could go, uh, for another hour or two at least, but I want to be respectful for your time, but, uh, just want to thank you for coming on, man, I really appreciate your conversation today. Yeah, man, thank you so much for having me. I, uh, I'm honored that you would, uh, you'd bring me on. \[01:12:49\] Anytime. Appreciate you. Thanks, man. Hey, everybody, that's going to be a wrap for this episode with Ethan Owen. I had a fun and great conversation with him and it felt like it could go on and on and on. So hopefully, we did not bore you with the discussion about, uh, programming languages, sports, science, analytics, how you can use this information, some of the best pieces of advice that Ethan has received, book recommendations and so on and so on. I can't wait. I'm sort of frothing at the, uh, \[01:13:22\] At the teeth for another episode with him. And I know that he has a standing invitation for coming on the decoding excellence show. So hopefully you took a lot of way from Ethan's background, his unique journey and how he found himself at the various stops that he has made through his own career. I want to thank you for listening and supporting the show. And my one additional ask is this, if you had anything, you take anything away from this show, please, the biggest way that you can support the decoding excellence show is by logging onto \[01:13:56\] ITunes and leaving us a review. Good, bag, ugly, however we can improve. I want to make sure that we answer what you're looking for and make those changes. So please log on to iTunes. Leave us review because that allows us to move through the ecosystem of the iTunes rating and it allows us to receive a little bit better and more visibility with the show and allows us to get amazing guests like Ethan back on the show and maybe even some future guests as we continue to climb the charts. I also want to remind you that I have a semi weekly newsletter that, uh, that occasionally goes out \[01:14:35\] And the, what I, how I describe it to my friends and family and people that I meet is that it's sort of like the birch box of sport performance newsletters. It's chock full of different articles, different things I'm finding fascinating, things I'm experimenting with, uh, here at University of Colorado. And it's just basically a, uh, a fun little collection of, of different articles and different things that you can use throughout your given week or month that I think would bring you some value and some interest to your day. So head over to AdamRingler.com forward slash newsletter. \[01:15:10\] Pop in your email. I promise I won't ever spam you with anything. I'm not trying to sell you with anything. It's basically just the cool stuff that I discover throughout my given week and that I ultimately want to share with you. So AdamRingler.com forward slash newsletter.