> ## Content Index > Fetch the complete content index at: https://adamringler.com/llms.txt > Use this file to discover other available public pages before exploring further. # #011 Jorge Carvajal - URL: https://adamringler.com/podcast/011/ - Published: 2017-05-01T15:41:42.000Z - Updated: 2026-10-20T06:07:00.000Z - Author: Adam Ringler - Tags: Decoding Excellence, #podcast, Coaching and Leadership, Career Development In this episode of the Decoding Excellence Show, I am speaking with **Jorge Carvajal**, a performance coach and consultant who works with elite athletes. Jorge has trained athletes at places like the University of Florida, the University of Nebraska, and the U.S. Olympic Training Center. He currently works with NFL, Tactical and Big Wave surging athletes. **Jorge and I discuss:** - His journey into coaching - The lessons his mentors taught him - Developing durability & resiliency in athletes - Flow producing environments - Longevity in the coaching profession ## Key Takeaways From The Conversation Whether or not you press play above, here is how I think about the topics Jorge and I covered. These are principles I have carried across twenty years and four programs, and they apply whether you coach NFL players, tactical athletes, or high school freshmen. ### 1\. Durability Is Built, Not Gifted Resilient athletes are not born. They are built through years of intelligent loading, honest assessment, and patient progression. The coaches who keep athletes healthy are the ones obsessed with the athlete in front of them, not the method they fell in love with last summer. Chase clarity, not complexity. Simple systems executed with consistency will keep more athletes on the field than any exotic protocol. And remember: Jills and Joes, not X's and O's. The person matters more than the program. ### 2\. Build Flow-Producing Environments The best training environments produce a state where athletes are challenged, engaged, and free to experiment. That does not happen by accident. You design it. You set the tempo, because the speed of the boss is the speed of the team, and what you see is what you coach. Give athletes real autonomy inside clear standards. Let them make safe mistakes. Fear of a mistake should NEVER lead to a failure to take action. Some of the best development I have ever seen came from handing athletes a training lab and letting them figure it out, then debriefing what worked. ### 3\. Longevity In Coaching Comes From Staying A Student Coaches who last are coaches who keep learning. Principles and foundations should remain the same, but the application of those principles must change as the science evolves. If your program has not changed in five years, you need to seriously question what you are doing. Are you being a coach or a babysitter? Stay curious. Read widely. Talk to coaches outside your sport. The moment you decide you have it figured out is the moment you start declining. ### 4\. Take Ownership Of Everything Harry Truman kept a sign on his desk: The buck stops here. When an athlete gets hurt, when the energy is flat, when the results do not come, the leader owns it first. Being the victim of a problem is a terrible way to navigate life, and it is a disqualifying way to lead. Leaders do two things, in this order: accomplish the mission, and protect the team. That is true in a weight room, in a tactical unit, and in a front office. You can catch up with Jorge on Twitter at @CarvPerformance This episode of the Decoding Excellence show is brought to you by Vald Performance, the makers of the NordBord, DashBord, and the GroinBar. They can be found at [ValdPerformance.com](http://www.valdperformance.com/?ref=adamringler.com) Stay updated with the podcast by following me on Twitter via @AdamRingler In addition to those social mediums, you can head over to [AdamRingler.com/Newsletter](http://www.adamringler.com/newsletter?ref=adamringler.com) and sign-up for my weekly newsletter. This is a newsletter for the curious. It's chalked full of interesting articles I've read through the week, things I'm exploring and finding fascinating through my week, and a collections of thought experiences and resources I've cultivated. *It's essentially a Birchbox newsletter for performance-related articles, research, and daily musings.* Thanks again for listening to the Decoding Excellence Show! I appreciate all the support growing this Sport Science, Strength & Conditioning, and High-Performance Coaching resource. If you have taken anything away from the show, please login to iTunes and navigate to the [Decoding Excellence](https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/decoding-excellence/id1205636566?mt=2&ref=adamringler.com) page and leave us a review. --- --- ## Key Takeaways - Durability is built, not gifted. Resilient athletes come from years of intelligent loading, honest assessment, and patient progression. Simple systems executed with consistency keep more athletes on the field than any exotic protocol. - Build flow-producing environments. Set the tempo, give athletes real autonomy inside clear standards, and let them make safe mistakes. Fear of a mistake should never lead to a failure to take action. - Longevity in coaching comes from staying a student. Principles stay the same, but their application must change as the science evolves. If your program has not changed in five years, question what you are doing. - Take ownership of everything. Leaders do two things, in this order: accomplish the mission and protect the team. Being the victim of a problem is a disqualifying way to lead. ## About the Guest Jorge Carvajal is a performance coach and consultant who has trained athletes at the University of Florida, the University of Nebraska, and the U.S. Olympic Training Center, and currently works with NFL, tactical, and big wave surfing athletes. He and Adam discuss his coaching journey, developing durability and resiliency, flow-producing environments, and longevity in the profession. ## Listen and Subscribe Find this episode of the Decoding Excellence Show on [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/decoding-excellence/id1205636566?ref=adamringler.com) and [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/093GVrPwd9l832q3EWhVKc?ref=adamringler.com), or use the player above. --- ## Go Further in This Episode Enjoyed this conversation? Here is how to get more from it: - **Read the transcript below** to revisit key ideas at your own pace. - **Share this episode** with a coach or colleague who would benefit. - **Subscribe to the Decoding Excellence Show** on [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/decoding-excellence/id1205636566?ref=adamringler.com), [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/093GVrPwd9l832q3EWhVKc?ref=adamringler.com), or your favorite app. - **Join the newsletter** at [adamringler.com/newsletter](https://adamringler.com/newsletter/) for weekly insights on human performance. --- ## Episode Transcript *This transcript was automatically generated. While we strive for accuracy, some words or phrases may be misheard.* \[00:00:00\] Surfing does that for me, but Jiu Jitsu does that for me also. I think there's a part of it, which is maybe the opposite of flow and that there's humility in both of them, right? There is, if you think you know what you think you're doing in Jiu Jitsu, that's the time you get choked and you tap out really quick and you have no idea what happened. \[00:00:19\] You just knew what happened very quickly. And that's being that humility comes from the mat. And the ocean and the board is the same. Sports Science, Strength and Conditioning, High Performance Coaching. Welcome to the Dakotin Excellence Show. \[00:00:41\] Today's episode is brought to you by Vald Performance, the makers of the Nordboard. If you haven't checked out their website yet, I highly suggest you head over there, whether it's return to play, injury prevention or just plain performance testing. \[00:00:57\] Vald Performance has the tools that you need. Check them out at ValdPerformance.com. Welcome back to the Dakotin Excellence Show. Today on the show, I have the pleasure of sitting down and chatting with George Carvajal. Coach Carvajal is a performance coach and a consultant \[00:01:17\] Who works with elite athletics. He has trained athletes at places like the University of Florida, the University of Nebraska and the United States Olympic Training Center. He currently works with NFL, Tactical and Big Wave Surfing Athletes. This was an incredibly fun show to sit down with George and listen to the stories and the things that really resonated \[00:01:40\] With him during his career and to listen about his pathway and his journey into professional and collegiate coaching. I think it offers insights into the mind that George has, that he shares and the type of person that he is, which is a really, really good guy. Topics include Big Wave Surfing, Chajitsu, Professional and Collegiate Strength and Conditioning. \[00:02:02\] We talk some technology, we talk surfing. It's a wide-ranging conversation and I took a lot away from it and I know you will too. So without further ado, here is my conversation with coach George Carvajal. \[00:02:18\] George, welcome to the show. I'd like to be here. Thanks for having me, Adam. I am so excited to have you on because you've been a guy that I followed on Twitter for years and continue to share your material, to resonate with the material that you share, \[00:02:36\] And to finally be able to share a conversation as person as we possibly can through what is otherwise the digital, sort of connected world with you being bicostle and me being stuck in the mainland. It's finally nice to have a conversation. How are things in your world? \[00:02:55\] Good, good man, appreciate it. Yeah, same here. I've been a big time follower. We connected a long time ago. We probably do not remember this. But I reached out to you about your resume. \[00:03:09\] Do you remember that? Oh my goodness. That's been a long time. I just came across some days and started going through and was like, this is unique and it was yours. \[00:03:19\] And you put me in touch with the guy who did yours and ended subsequently getting one from him. That's been a very long time ago. But that's a little short kind of off-side topic, a little intro for me on how we kind of really met. And then we just, I guess, progress from there. \[00:03:37\] Yeah, I love it. I think initially it was maybe at that time, if it was a while ago, like a visual resume, probably. Correct. That's exactly what it was. \[00:03:49\] And I had a similar conversation with another sports scientist that I was at a conference and comes running up to me and Adam, Adam, Adam. And I'm like, yeah, what's up? \[00:04:00\] He's like, you got to check out what I've done. And he turns the laptop around and it's his visual resume. And he's like, I was inspired by your resume. And I find that it's unique. I think the people that are drawn to visual resumes, \[00:04:18\] Well, I've not been on the other receiving end of receiving one. Share a commonality that is a creative eye and maybe an expression to step outside the box, break the rules, if you will. So that's awesome, man. Yeah, it is. \[00:04:36\] It is different. It does catch your eye and as someone who's seen resumes come by the desk. They get blurry, right? Very quickly. \[00:04:46\] And so you're looking, you're looking for something different and it could be a catch word. Here they are, something specific, a title here, or there again. But when you see that, \[00:04:57\] It's just, you just stop. And you're like, this is different. Like, this dude is different. Like, what's this about? And that already puts you at the top of the pile. And so I thought it was brilliant. \[00:05:07\] I really thought it was brilliant. I'm glad that you could kind of take that. I'm certainly glad I put you in, or either eye or a resource or whatever to put you in contact with the person that did that, by all means. \[00:05:20\] But speaking of an interesting and top of the pile resume and experiences, I am excited to have you on the show because I think outside of a lot of different practitioners in our world, our industry, you do some amazing and unique things \[00:05:40\] And you work with some unique populations that a typical team sport at coach might not potentially work with. So for anyone that is living under a rock or an audience member, that's maybe just starting out. \[00:05:54\] And this is what that shows for is for, you know, the new coaches or old coaches that maybe just are trying to explore the fringe a little bit. I would love to hear what you're currently up to and maybe a little bit of a background about how you got into your own personal coaching journey. \[00:06:10\] Yeah, so my journey into, you know, high performance, strength and conditioning, et cetera, is super traditional, like traditional traditional traditional traditional. I was a multi-sport athlete in high school. I ran track, \[00:06:25\] A little bit of basketball and had to choose because of the seasons and played football. And when I was done, I was always a very good student. I had some offers from Ivy League schools. They don't offer scholarships. \[00:06:37\] They primarily offer academic scholarships. I visited some, but in my heart, what I really, really wanted is, I had been a Florida fan since I was six years old. And I remember the orange and blue \[00:06:50\] And coming out and the fight songs. And that's where I really wanted to go, except they didn't offer me a scholarship. So, you know, I was primarily a Ivy League division, one AA, maybe two kind of guy. \[00:07:06\] It was definitely not an FPS one kind of athlete. But I kind of made a decision and the decision was that I was going to walk on it Florida. And that's what I did. I ended up walking on it Florida. And as a walk on you, \[00:07:23\] You become sort of the kamikaze, right? Because you end up playing just special teams. And so, you were the chorus of 14 months. I had five concussions. And three of those really kind of put me in just a total different space as far as awareness and consciousness \[00:07:43\] And what the injury was. Didn't not a lot of information and concussions back then. You just kind of sat down. Hey kid, put on your chin strap. We're sending you back in. And so I think that that's why I ended up with four over those, \[00:07:57\] I think it was five over 14 months. And the last one, the neurologist looked at me and I had a silver dollar sized vision on the side of my temporal area. And he said, listen, you're not going to go into the NFL. \[00:08:15\] You told me that when we first started talking. So I can't tell you to stop playing football, but if you get hit in that spot again, you're not going to survive it, right? And so I thought, well, that's different than, hey, you got an injury, \[00:08:29\] We'll do surgery and then it's up to you. So I had an instant, the blink of an eye ended my college football career. So I was kind of moping around a lot. And the strength coach at the time, you could not use a strength room or facilities \[00:08:44\] As a walk on as you know, you know, NCAA rules prohibited. But I kind of really did anyway. I kind of liked the atmosphere. I did not ever think of being a strength coach or anything. \[00:08:56\] To me, strength and addition was a means to an end. I walked into the facility. I opened up a cabinet and pulled out a five by earth. It was a five by three by five card and then a five by for the week. You put in your weights. \[00:09:09\] You put it back in. The coach would then come behind you, get that card out and kind of program for you. Really was going to medical school. That was sort of where I was going. I was a pre-med student. \[00:09:21\] And the strength coach at the time, Rich Tutan, who spent is the only guy I know who actually retired as a strength and addition coach with the Broncos. He said, you're you're spending a lot of time around the the weight room. \[00:09:37\] You know, there's a class. And the class is student strength and conditioning. And it was a 16 week three credit course. And I signed up for it. And essentially what you did, what you did was you kind of cleaned the weight room. \[00:09:49\] That's all you did. There was no knowledge. There was no learning period. There was no, hey, here's a dry race board. We're going to go over this. That's sort of what the class was about. \[00:09:58\] You burnt an hour. But I really started to get really curious about how they program. Like, here's my card. And I put it every day in this file cabinet. And somebody pulls it out and gives me new weights \[00:10:10\] For the next day in the week. And like, how does that happen? So I started to become a little bit more involved. And that led to an internship. That led to a GA position. And so there. \[00:10:22\] I had a connection, which was my advisor who said, hey, there's a. There's a very interesting position across the pond. I think you're perfect for it. And at that time, I don't think I had ever been in a plane at them. \[00:10:38\] Every my life. When we vacation, we got in the Winnibega with my family. And we, you know, we went somewhere. But I don't think I had ever been in a plane. And it was an exchange program. And it was an exchange program in Moscow. \[00:10:51\] And it was primarily working with winter sports and the Russian bobsled team. And so I didn't speak Russian. And I found that to be. I was really terrified of getting on a plane. And she said, listen, it's with an American family. \[00:11:09\] That's there. You'll live with them. And, you know, you'll get to credit. You just have to kind of show up. And it'll be cultural differences. And it'll be a very, very, very, very, very, very, \[00:11:20\] But I think it's really important. I think it's really what you want to do. I spoke a lot to her about the Olympics. And what I was really curious about. How an athlete trained for the Olympic sports. And so I saw the Olympics very, very differently \[00:11:34\] Than most people who sat in the TV. And watched it. My thing was. Like, what do they do to get to? Like, how do they jump so hard? So far, so high. \[00:11:41\] How do they run so fast? How do they throw so far? I was really interested in the science of training. The long story short. I ended up flying across. Did the. \[00:11:53\] Exchange program. And really became the catalyst. Of who and what I am now. It was very, very simple. Programming. It was minimal dose. \[00:12:05\] But very, very targeted to the athlete in the sport. The needs of the sport and the needs of the athlete. To this day, it still serves at the foundation. When I think about how complicated things can be. Right. Human body is very complex. \[00:12:23\] Training isn't. I always go back to that. And I always get humbled by that time. I remember athletes lying on benches that were actually padded with just foam and wrapped around with duct tape. That's all they had. \[00:12:39\] That's what they. The weights were dirty. They were smelly. They were rusty. The clanging of the weights is still the clanging of the weights. The squat racks were antiquated. \[00:12:51\] Some of them were held together by two by four. But none of that mattered. It was really in the programming. And that's what I really aspired to be good at is. Programming. To get an athlete. \[00:13:04\] More developed. Better. Bigger faster at their sport. Once I left that came back, an opportunity opened itself as a GA in Nebraska. And at that time, Nebraska was essentially the birth of modern \[00:13:21\] Stretching conditioning in the USA. Right. Boyd Eppley, the Husker power. So I came in on the ground for when that started. So talk about. You know, an amazing opportunity. \[00:13:33\] And it was it was completely. Different than the experience that I had had at Florida. Very different mentality, different philosophies, different ways of thinking. But in the end, sort of kind of in the same box, which is really strengthening conditioning. They just did it differently. \[00:13:50\] They put an emphasis on. The bigger faster stronger where Florida was a lot more about speed because it was the SEC. So I learned to target. And program. Yes, based on the needs of the athlete and based on the needs of the sport. Right. Every conference is different. \[00:14:08\] And the SEC at that time was just about speed, speed, speed. You can't hit what you can't catch. And Nebraska was really about, you know, blowing people off the line. You know, they had. Amazing, amazing offensive lineman. And you could see those guys lift and they they put up premium on lifting. \[00:14:26\] So that was, you know, did that GA position there and then came time to make a decision. If I wanted to continue that route or go on my own. And it really became a challenge for my father who said, you know, do you think you can take an athlete from a through Z by yourself. And I was sort of kind of scared uncomfortable, but I said, you know, I think I can. I think I have had enough information that I'm going to make a thousand mistakes. \[00:14:55\] But that's the only way I know that that doesn't work and they'll go the opposite direction. And he said, cool. And that's exactly what I did is I sort of kind of just started my own company. I didn't have any athletes. It's sort of kind of the guy. The best analogy I can use is the guy who starts his own business. And he goes in the morning and turns the sides. \[00:15:16\] It says close to open and sits behind the desk and starts twirling his thumb waiting for the customer to come in. That's what it was exactly what it was like. And then little by little, I got an athlete. And I got a second athlete and before you knew it, I had kind of built this repertoire of athletes and everything was going fine. And I had self-actualized and I was doing what I wanted to do. I knew the why, why I got into something positioning. \[00:15:44\] I knew what my intent was. And then I got a phone call. And that phone call was an invitation to apply for. And subsequently interview for a job in professional sports or anything different. And I kind of realized that I had gotten to a point where it was, that is the top of the ladder. I had reached the top of the mountain. \[00:16:09\] That was the job that everybody wanted. And once I interviewed for the job, I got it and started the job. And everything seemed to be okay. It was super nice wearing the team polo around. At some point, my head was actually coming into the room before the rest of my body was. Ego was built. \[00:16:32\] Hey, that's the guy. Hey, there's a guy. Hey, you know who that guy is? It really kind of builds your ego in a way that nothing else had in my life. The problem was that it didn't really kind of work out for me. In many ways, there was nobody on that organization that was on the same page. And I'm talking from the owner to the strength coach, to the team coach, to the manager, to the guy who was kind of cleaning the building at night to myself. Everybody was in a different page. \[00:17:04\] Culture didn't really exist. It was a team sport, but there was really no culture. And that sort of was the beginning of the end for me. And long story short, I ended up with a terrible burnout. I certainly had the three signs of a miserable job. Patrick, when he speaks about in his book, I had all of those. Didn't really have good cognitive skills and cognitive flexibility to deal with it. \[00:17:31\] Nobody teaches you about stress and school, right? You just kind of realized here it is. I ended up residing from that job. And I basically went surfing for six months in Bali. There was a reason for me to do that. And that's because when I surfed, I realized that I was in this state where nothing really kind of permeated my mind. \[00:17:53\] Everything was just about the next wave. I didn't think about bills or family or my car or my job or nothing at all. It was simply about the next wave. What happened there is this exponential space started to build itself around me where there was nothing but possibilities. And then I started to think about, what do I want to do? Do I want to go back to coaching? \[00:18:18\] And the answer was yes. I loved coaching. I still love coaching. I loved teaching. I just didn't like it in the context that I was in. I realized that the grass is not always greener on the other side. Everybody thinks they want to be the Dallas Cowboys Strength Conditioning Coach. \[00:18:37\] Maybe not. I can tell you that it may not be, and pretty much I can tell you, it's not going to be what you think it is. You're certainly going to give up a tremendous amount of what you call your life. And you're going to build a life around a coaching practice. That's the way that works and everybody does it and you grind. And it's expected. \[00:18:59\] And I think that that's what creates a lot of burnout in coaching. So I didn't really think that that's where I wanted to go back to even though I was open to it. I just decided one day sitting at a restaurant table. I asked the waiters for a pen. I took an napkin and I started to build what is Carbohol performance now. I realized where I wanted to live was the first thing I wrote down. \[00:19:27\] And then what I wanted to do, which is coaching, and who did I want to coach? And I really wanted to work with some extreme sport athletes. It's what I liked. And little by little, I came back with nothing but a plan on an napkin and restarted everything from the ground, from the ashes. It's where Carbohol performance was rebuilt. It was where Carbohol performance was rebranded. \[00:19:54\] And it was where Carbohol performance was reborn. And that's turned into now a company where we, you know, we do NFL offseason and combine training. We do big wave surfers and we do special operations guys and very eclectic mix of training, very different programming. But it's what I love about it because they're all different guys. We can train in a group and do very general GPP stuff. But when it comes to the specialization, then everybody sort of kind of breaks into their own groups. \[00:20:27\] And we can have a great time training. If I was going to design sort of kind of a job for me, I'm doing exactly what that would be. So there's about nine different things I want to chew on from that response as follow-ups here. Because I think that story resonates with me, but certainly with a lot of the audience that will be listening to it. But to rewind a little bit, I'd love to know when you arrived at the peak of what is otherwise strengthened conditioning and the influence of that in America, at Nebraska as a graduate assistant, do you remember, I mean, mentally where your mind was of going into what is otherwise the most legendary strength conditioning program? \[00:21:18\] And I'm just curious if you felt even at that young age as a graduate assistant that you quote, arrived at all? Or can you put me in your mind if you can remember or recall any of that? I do remember, and I knew that I was at a special place. I knew that the moment I walked in on campus, and I asked for directions, and I started to walk, and I actually got chills right now. So you can imagine the impression that that had on me, that, you know, this far later, I don't know what it is, 25 years later, whatever it is. I still get chills when I bring up the thought of walking through the complex that was the strength complex for Nebraska for teams football primarily. \[00:22:09\] And I knew that I was in a special place. I didn't really know how special I wasn't a thousand percent sure that this was the place. I had been at Florida and Florida had a phenomenal rich student did a phenomenal job with the Florida Gators Inn as far as something. This thing was a very organized program. But I knew that there was something special about it. It's almost like the only other feeling I've ever gotten like that is I went to a football game at Notre Dame, and I walked through the halls looking at all of these \[00:22:46\] Heisman trophies, and essentially what is the legend, right? The history, the rich history of Notre Dame. New Rocking, Haraparsegan and Dan Devine, all these guys that had grown up watching football. Here I was walking through the halls of Notre Dame. That blew me away. Very few times in my life, I've ever had that feeling. \[00:23:11\] The only other time I've had that feeling is walking through Nebraska is I knew that there was something special there. It took me a little while to kind of realize that this guy boy, that please the guy that everybody quoted and everybody talking. I saw the guy every day. I remember the very first thing that he told me walking in the building and I remember the very last thing he told me walking in the building, which was the same thing by the way. And it's a quote that I have on top of my desk and he said, the great ones adapt. And that's the quote that I have on my desk when somebody says, can you remember a quote? \[00:23:48\] What's your quote? That's the one that he told me. He told me that kind of, I think it's he was his exit kind of quote to everybody is, you know, you're going to be going into profession where you're going to have to adapt, right? It may not necessarily be doing the sport that you like, may not be the state or the city that you like, but you're going to have to adapt because that's what this job is about. That's what I took from that, that quote. Mentally it was an exciting time because the learning was, I was already behind the April when I got there. \[00:24:21\] The guys had a bit of a jump on me and I was sort of kind of behind the April, but their program was different. And the more I program and more I realize, you could see some of the programming and speed development and different times and throws and track and field, et cetera. You started to see that there's this method to the madness, right? This isn't just about lifting weights and running. There's a specific way to do this. And it took me back to that time in Moscow where it was really about the programming. You know, I hear in conversations a lot of time people say, well, they were on drugs. Well, so was everybody else. \[00:24:59\] So that's not it. It was really about the programming and how they approached the science of performance. And so that was my mentality back then. It was completely and all, not really understanding what I had just stepped into, but realizing that it was very, very special. And it was. And then to follow up with that, I'd love, again, to maybe, if I could like almost like sit in the same room with you and your father when you were having that first discussion about stepping off the ledge. And going on your own for the first time. And that, that particular moment when you're sharing that really resonates for me because I share a very similar one with my own father, who sort of pushed me in this path as I was making a change, a major change in my life of a degree pursuit. And what I thought I was going down a road to please what I thought were my parents or what was expected of me to what is otherwise choosing this current passion of kinesiology and access science and sports science. \[00:26:11\] And I just remembered my own father giving me sort of the permission to pursue what was in my own heart. And when you were sharing that story. What, I mean, what were you, what were you thinking at that time when you were having that conversation with your father and he was sharing, you know, like the, the wisdom that he was giving or, or that is anything that you can remember about that. So how that conversation started was really simply is I looked at a couple of jobs that were open. And the pay was really bad and bad in the sense that it was low paying very, very low paying. I remember I had a roommate who worked at McDonald's at the time and he was making more than they were offering as an assistant strength coach. And I, you know, in just in conversation I showed him and he didn't read even remember what he made a year we just remember we set pull out a calculator he was an engineering and civil engineering major and pulled out a calculator and we figured it out and he was making about three or $4,000 more than that job was advertised. And so that didn't resonate with me. It kind of left a sour taste in my mouth. It's like, man, this is, this is a grinding job. Like this is 14 hours, you know, 60 hour a week. And I think the starting salary was like 19,000. \[00:27:39\] And I looked at a couple different ones that I think that the most paying or the highest paying job I saw most was I want to say 23 to 24\. So, and we're talking, you know, late 80s here, right? The night, maybe 1990\. Yeah, maybe 1990s. And so I had a conversation with my father who had always respected his intelligence. But more importantly, his honesty, right, he was a no BS kind of guy. He told you the way it was. And there was no kind of, you know. Nice, you know, pink gloves warn why he did that. It was here it is. And so I think I knew what the answer was, Adam, before I approached him, I sort of kind of just needed his OK. \[00:28:29\] And I needed to know that it was OK that I was going to do this. And I remember the conversation vividly. I asked him, I actually didn't ask him, I told him, hey, so here's, here's these, these job descriptions. And here's a salary. And he just looked at me. He didn't, he knew being obviously my father, whatever was thinking. And he said, well, you can try and make it work. You know, you're probably going to have to have the same arrangement you have now, which is, you know, have a roommate. If you make a work, is that what you really want to do? Do you like the college atmosphere? And I said, I love the college atmosphere. And to this day, I have nothing, nothing but the utmost respect for guys like you and the collegiate setting. \[00:29:20\] I know how tough that job is. I know what the hours are. I know it's not easy. So I have nothing but respect for guys and the collegiate level love, love those guys and the work that they do. And I thought, yeah, you know, I love, I love that I just love the feeling of being around young minded people that that you can help grow. And he said, yeah, but you know, you got to eat. And it's like the good point. You got to eat. And I don't know what it's like in that profession so far from what you've told me, you have to start at the bottom. And that's certainly at the bottom. Will that give you an opportunity to maybe go somewhere else and do something? And I said, yeah, what is that you want? Like what do you want to do? And I said, I really want to help develop an athlete. I want to try and give them the best chance that they can at being really, really good at their sport. And so his counter was, well, why can't you do that by yourself on your own? \[00:30:21\] And so that was really the green light for me. That's already what I had kind of played out in my mind. And it became then the catalyst to all right. He did say, and I remember again, clearly he said, you're going to be jumping in the deep end of the pool without learning how to swim and with wearing a hundred pound vest on you realize that, right? And I said, well, no, not that you put in those terms, I guess not, but that's exactly what it was. It was jumping in the deep end of the pool, not knowing how to swim with a weight vest on, but figuring out that I'll figure this out. If there's one thing I've always known about myself, and that comes from not just my father, but my family, they'll figure it out. We have always been able to figure out, and I'm part of that gene pool when I know not knowing how it's going to end, but I know I'll figure it out. \[00:31:13\] And that's exactly what happened. I just kind of jumped and figured it out. That's amazing. And I just imagine that there was, you know, one of the reasons why I think I resonate with you as a person is because I share that same similarity of, if you give me enough time, no matter the problem. I'm going to try to find a way to figure out a solution to what is otherwise complex problems. My last line of questioning, then we'll go into another area that I'd love to spend some time on, but your time in professional sport sits in between the time that you first win on your own. Your dad sort of gave you that sort of affirmation that belief of, hey, you know, pursue your dreams. And then you get that phone call that brings you into the limelight, if you will, of professional sport. \[00:32:10\] And then you find out that maybe that's not all that odds cracked up to be. And then you decide to go on your own and you start your own company, the 2.0 version of it. And I would love to hear what the difference was from the first time, the maturation, the philosophical differences, what the personal growth you had from the first time you went out on your own to the second time. And what changes are the big stones that you had to overcome? You know, what comes to mind is intuition, right? And when I had that first, when I start auto monitors, it was really kind of blind. \[00:32:58\] I remember that I used to train guys that were playing professional sports with whatever I could carry in the back of my pickup truck. That's it. I didn't have a gym. We went to a track and I had a track background. So I knew how to train track athletes and speed athletes and 100 meter runners. That's what I had been. I knew that. And so the programming there was very simple. I loved what I was doing. Followed the same kind of, kind of this mishmash of template between what I had learned in Nebraska, Florida and in Moscow. \[00:33:39\] And again, I use the word self-actualized because I, I just was, you know, I don't remember feeling the ground when I walked. I was so enthralled in what I was doing. I should have listened to my intuition that little voice, I was so people listened to that little voice because it's never wrong. My intuition told me, I never had the aspiration, Adam, to go into pro sports. I really didn't. I was doing exactly what I was born and put on planet earth to do without any question in my mind. But then what happened is I lost focus and perspective. \[00:34:17\] I went from understanding my why and my intent of getting into strength and conditioning. I lost that and became worldly success, right? The moment that the pro sports job came into mind, it's almost like something switched in my brain. I went from what I knew as far as what I wanted again, my intent and what my, what my why was that switched to worldly success. I think I just went after all this information, right? You can't get enough information and why? Because you're at, you're at the top and there's only one way to go and that's down. \[00:34:55\] But the only way to stay there is just, you just have to get more information, more information, more information, more information. And I should have listened to the voice because that's not where, where I wanted. That's not at all where I wanted to. So leaving that spot, then put me back into okay, looking back at where I was, did I really make a difference, right? Was I relevant? And the answer was, I wasn't relevant. The truth of the matter is that those guys were still going to make $20 million with or without me. \[00:35:31\] And that was hard. You kind of start to realize that this is a different game now. I remember going to lunch with my father and him asking me, how do you get evaluated? And I said, what do you mean? He says, how do you get evaluated? Do you get an evaluation? And I said, I don't know. I get a paycheck every two weeks. I guess I'm doing good. And I haven't been fired yet. So I guess the answer is, I guess, I guess everything's good. And it brings, again, Patrick Lincioni's third sign of a miserable job, which is a measurement, right? \[00:36:07\] That's another little dirty secret in strengthening conditioning is that we don't know how to really measure the value of a strengthening condition code, certainly not in team sports. And the moment that I really started to realize that nobody's really measuring me, maybe it's because I'm not really valued where I valued myself and the job that I was doing before as a sole proprietor LLC. Then I started to realize that if I'm going to do this again, then it has to be, I have to try and capture that feeling that I had before. It had been a long time since I felt it. \[00:36:45\] I didn't know if I could get it, but I remember that it was a philosophy that I have always had. And I continued to have and I lost it in that interim inside the parentheses of pro sports was people first, right? During that time was athletes first. I didn't put people first. I don't remember even some of the names of the guys on the team. That's that's how it was. It was very impersonal. And I remember sitting at a table and I had three by five cards and the coach came by and said, what are you doing? And I said, well, I'm trying to learn the guy's names, like, and how are you doing that? \[00:37:26\] And because I'm a sneaker fanatic, it was by sneakers. I was remembering guys names and memorizing them by the type of sneaker that they wore. And he said, you don't need to do that. You just need to be seen and not heard. And so that's not what I really thought being a strength condition coach at that level was about. And it broke my spirit in many ways because I knew everybody that I coached before. I knew it's sneakers they wore. I knew everything about them. \[00:37:59\] And so I went from people first to athletes first back to people first. I recaptured that by not really even caring about what somebody's goals were as far as athletics were. When we met, it was a two hour conversation, just two guys talking or two individuals. What is it you want? Like, what is it about you that makes you different? Like tell me about your family. Where are your kids names? Where do they go to school? It was really about learning about the individual first. And I realized that that was really about buy-in. \[00:38:30\] The first time I coached on my own, it was really about just learning the craft. Right? It's just just learning about how to program for these guys and different seasons and realizing that in many ways, both special operation guys and surfers. There's no periodization for them. It doesn't exist because they have to be ready all the time. First is there is a periodized program for the NFL season guy and the guy going from the combine to OTAs to preseason and to the NFL. Very, very different. So that for me was just learning. \[00:39:07\] Really, the X's and the O's, right? How to do Excel? Like, what is Excel? And now I dream in Excel, like most of us. And then going from that to, again, a position where I realized I was sort of, and not really sort of, I really was irrelevant. I was certainly made to feel that way. I don't know that there's anything I could have done to make myself more relevant. Perhaps there was, and I could certainly say that I could fault myself some for that. And I went from that then to putting people first already having the technical and tactical knowledge of how to kind of take an athlete from A through Z. \[00:39:50\] But it really became more again about the individual is about coaching the person first offering a boutique service performance coaching service where the athlete, the athlete came after only we treated the person. And it became special and it's become somewhat of a family atmosphere. It's very different in the first time, very, very different because I learned to put the athlete first again in a different way. Not just the programming, but again, just who and what are you? What are your dreams or your hopes? And can I help you get there? And then we'll talk about how we can get you bigger faster and stronger. Earlier you said one thing as we kind of get towards towards the end of this. And I'd love to kind of continue this conversation in this sort of domain. \[00:40:41\] You talked about some of the things you've learned working with action sports and what they taught you. And you said cognitive flexibility. And what I think about when you said that was just the ability of kind of being able to tap into what is otherwise flow states. And when you were saying that, the two books that jumped immediately out to mind was Stephen Kotler's Rise of Superman. And then their newest book between him and his co-author Stealing Fire, which are both tremendous books. And what I thought about that is from a flow state because I know you and I were talking off air. But I obviously live in concrete, flat, dry land, not a body of water anywhere around me. \[00:41:34\] Michigan certainly having northern snow. I would snowboard a little bit and really resonated to that. Colorado is not too far away from us. But you talked about this sort of holistic coach health and burnout a little bit. And I even found myself as of maybe three, four years ago going back out to and this seems ridiculous to say, but going back out, going visiting a skate shop. Right. Purchasing a new skateboard, something I haven't bought in, I don't know, damn near 15, 20 years. And just kind of skating around and I remember going, you know, at this time it was during the summer. And it was like going to the weight room at eight for the first team, but going out to a otherwise empty skate park at six a.m. In the morning \[00:42:26\] Because I'm, you know, again, a little green on it, having not rode on a board for 20 years or so. And just having, finding myself become immersed in the risk, the reward, the adrenaline, the excitement, the flow that surrounds it. So what do you find similarities of that when you're surfing? I mean, what, what is your relationship with what is other, you know, cognitive flexibility or flow with either the athletes that you work with or even yourself when you're jumping on your board and paddling out. Yeah, so Maslow called it peak experience, right? Some people call it the zone, martial artists and mystics and monks have trained for centuries. Mikai, she sent me high, gave it a new term and heavily researched it and like that state of flow, which is really just that mental state of operation where you're performing activity and you're so fully immersed, so energized and focused, so involved and the enjoyment is so high that you're complete absorbed in what you're doing. And it usually has some kind of leisure aspect to it, usually physical. \[00:43:44\] It really happens when parts of the brain that create sense of time and self partially kind of switch off, right? And then you end up, and it results in this experience where you're fully, fully immersed. I think it helps us play our strengths, competencies for our weaknesses. And that switching of my brain is what I was looking for in the experience when I went out to Indonesia. I knew that I could get into that state when I took that time off and I needed to and need to kind of figure out where I was. And that was a state where flow for me just was flowing regularly like freely. I didn't have to do and had all I needed to do was to just be out there and it really was about cultivating for me and the athletes to now it's about cultivating experience and ongoing orientation to the world via some type of discipline or practice and it could be anything. \[00:44:51\] You found it now in the skateboarding that captured the feelings of your youth usually combines right some kind of concentration openness. It brings us to the edge of habitual thinking and face to face with fear, which I think is part of as you got older and you got in that board fear certainly permeated your brain, right? Being uncomfortable, it's something that encourages us to go a step beyond. And one of those things that I felt without question helped me recover from that burnout was being in that flow state. I thought well, if I can't do anything different, if I have to go back to that situation, what can I do? And it really was about creating a flow state where I would have to pencil in that whatever it is gave me flow and made that a substantial part of my life. \[00:45:46\] Not just, hey, so will vacation, you know, once a year and go surfing Hawaii, well, that doesn't create flow. Flow has to be something that's pretty regularly done. And I found that it's a super helpful discipline that, you know, just obviously involves the body and the mind and surfing does that for me, but jujitsu does that for me also. I think there's a part of it, which is maybe the opposite of flow and that there's humility in both of them, right? If you think you know what you think you're doing and jujitsu, that's the time you get choked and you tap out really quick and you have no idea what happened. You just knew what happened very quickly. \[00:46:29\] And that's being that humility comes from the mat. And the ocean and the board is the same. But when you think you know the ocean and you've kind of figured it out, you get dropped and you're on a five minute hold down, you're thinking, how do I find myself here? And that's the ultimate humility. And then the opposite is what I love is those two states is the humility of both of those sports, but also the flow state that both of them create. I can get the same flow state from being on a mat and just being immersed on the next move and the next move and the next move after that. \[00:47:03\] And maybe sitting on the side of the mat and seeing somebody else gracefully practice a move that I, you know, my, the puzzle in my brain had, it's a puzzle my brain has not been able to figure out. And so flow becomes a really important part of what we're doing. I highly encourage it in the athletes that that we work with. We sit down and we explain to what flow is. We give them examples of what that is and flow becomes very, very different for many people. For my father, that flow was working the garage with tools. \[00:47:34\] You could just see he just got immersed and lost complete track of time and he came out and he had a very stressful job as an educator. And you realize that it's, there's, there's this magic that comes with that word flow. You know, read the books and I thought it will all this is great. I realized I've been living this for all of my life. I just didn't know what to call it. And so we try and cultivate it now. \[00:48:00\] You know, for me, it's surfing in Jiu-Jitsu or somebody else may be skateboarding. It could be mountain biking or swimming or competitive triathlons or triathlons or woodworking. And I think that there's a, there's a part of that flow and I call it ritual, which is a metric. And somebody says, hey, how do you know you're sort of kind of getting to that burnout? There's a thousand different signs and symptoms, you know, according to the literature. There's one thing out of that. \[00:48:34\] There's, it's completely in 1000% full proof and that's ritual. Whatever that ritual is for you, for me, it's surfing and, you know, Jiu-Jitsu as much as I can. The moment that I start telling myself or you start telling yourself, hey, you know what, I can't skateboard today. Or you skateboarded five days out of the week and then you went to three and then to two. And then you don't even know what skateboard is. That breaking of that ritual, you're already on the bus to burnout, you don't know it yet. \[00:49:06\] And burnout is not something that happens overnight, it happens over time. And when it does happen and you kind of track it back, you realize you've been in that state for a very long time. And it usually happens when that ritual is broken. That is exactly what happened to me. I was surfing all the time and I had 22 boards in my garage and I never touched anyone for almost two years. And I went from surfing all of the time to surfing four days a week and three than two. \[00:49:34\] And then I came up with the excuses of why I couldn't because I needed more time. And the truth is I was just using poor judgment when it came to focus in my time. Instead of balance, when we talk about that, instead of seeking balance and strength and conditioning, why don't you make better choices with the available time that you have. And that has to include time for flow. And it has to include time for ritual, the moment that you violate that ritual principle, \[00:50:01\] You're already on the way to burnout. Sometimes you're able to redirect your focus and your energy and life changes. But if that is the metric and I've seen it a thousand times, if I've seen it once, it is once you break the ritual of what it is that brings flow to you, then you've got a problem. Yeah, and I, you know, that resonates with me because there's a number of different things that I would dive into in that narrative. \[00:50:30\] Is that, you know, I'm a six year forever white belt with my relationship to BJJ. And my first relation was as a college wrestler and a strength coach gravitating to something that was sort of competitive, that was a physical practice outside of the weight room. And I just remember the humility that that quickly brings as a first time white belt, you know, going literally walking into submissions and chokes on a frequent basis with what was otherwise like a 14 year old that was giving up maybe 65 pounds on me during a roll. \[00:51:17\] And that quickly brings a level of humility when you think that you should be better at something. And what I really like about it, and I know this is a wide-ranging conversation. And this is what sort of the Decoding Excellence Show is. But the ritual, the routine, the habit of arriving, tying your belt, having your first bow, going around the circle and shaking hands, sitting down, waiting for your professor to come out, it quickly becomes something that I, for me, have been able to quickly flip into flow state. \[00:52:02\] You know, like, for me, I'm not worried about the cell phone that's going off, the notification, the email I have, the assignment, the project, the whatever. You quickly, your key really forces you, not, I mean, there's a reason there's no pockets on it, number one, right? So that you can't store your cell phone in it, right? But it allows you to be completely immersed in the environment that you're in. And there's good sessions, there's bad sessions, there's times where you're thinking something, \[00:52:32\] And you know, whatever that, that thoughts creep in, and that's, you know, no exception, do the mountain or the wave or wherever you're at. But I found it, like yourself, when you're talking, you're sitting on the side of the match, or the mat, and you're thinking, you know, of a different escape, or a different sweep, or a different submission, or a different maneuver of your body. And it really starts to explore the creativity element of how you can maneuver and move your body to alter the end of a saw. \[00:53:06\] And I see that so much in action sports, and I've lived it with, you know, a skateboard of trying a different line, or trying a different run, or doing something a little bit different, that has a sense of risk and reward, that I think is so valuable for quickly igniting that sort of flow switch. And that whole narrative that you were describing just now is completely really, really resonates to the character and me at heart. It's a metaphor for life, right? It really is. It's the, for me, it's the art of conflict resolution. I've never learned anything more about conflict and resolution than on a mat. \[00:53:48\] Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, there's always an education. And the flow state, once you come into those doors, it just begins. Everything else drops, and you're there, and you're present, and you're with people, and you're growing, and you're defeated, and you're frustrated, and you're learning. It's just a great, I found it to be just a great metaphor for life. Yeah, those are certainly some true roads here. I want to be respectful to your time, and I know this has been sort of all over the place, like a good conversation, and a campfire story would be. \[00:54:23\] If there was anything in this show that resonated with someone in the listening audience, what is the best way that someone could reach you and continue a conversation with you, or just be exposed to the materials that you share? What's the best way someone can get in contact with you? For me, it's really Twitter, and I say that because for me, Twitter is about a medium and a forum to change information. It's really about, how can I serve? What can I do to help you? \[00:54:58\] And that is really about information sharing. I share my information freely. There's nothing to hide, and I always say that we all do the same thing in many ways. We're not reinventing the wheel. It's already been invented. We're just changing maybe the spokes, or the tire that goes on it, et cetera. But Twitter seems to be the best way. It's car performance. You're more than happy to be happy to give my email, which is car performance and Gmail. Email me if you have a question. If I can, again, help you serve in any way. \[00:55:35\] Help you make you better, help you grow, answer a question. That's why I exist on Twitter, and that's why I exist as a coach. Excellent. And I'll make sure to include your social media, social media handle in the show notes. And that way, if, you know, any from the listening audience wants to kind of get in contact with you and continue a dialogue with you or with us, they have a means to do it. George, I want to thank you so much for coming on the Decoding Excellence Show and just sharing the wisdom and your experiences and your innermost thoughts really about where you were at different professional stages of your career and how you've navigated those pitfalls and those decisions and the journeys. And just the lessons that you've learned over a course of your career working in high performance and working with a wide degree of different athletes and just the lessons that you shared about identifying those moments of burnout and coming true to yourself to making sure that you stay with the routines. I think there's just a tremendous amount of information and wisdom wrapped up in the things that you share and I just can't thank you enough for for being willing to share it with the listening audience today. \[00:56:57\] We appreciate it Adam. Thank you very much and thank you for the conversation because that's what it was, right? Absolutely and certainly a good one, man. So thank you George and until next time we'll talk soon. All right, talk to you. George Carvalhoff for coming on the Decoding Excellence Show. If you didn't take anything away from that show, I don't know if I can help you. George is one of the best guys in the field and his lessons and the stories that he shared in this fireside chat really resonated with me. And I think that there are powerful lessons that you can take away as you're listening to his journey, the successes, the failures, the moments, the forks in the road. \[00:57:43\] As he's choosing from one way to another way, from one opportunity to the next. This show really, really resonated with me and I so much appreciated the great conversation that George shared with me. And like always, the Decoding Excellence Show is an exploration into the untangibles, the tools, the tactics, the techniques that go into world class performers. If you take anything away from the show, please share this show on your social media of choice. Go on the iTunes, leave us a five star review. That way new coaches, new practitioners can be exposed to the show and begin to immediately download and listen to the lessons of the giants that have paved the industry to what it is today. Thank you to Coach George Carvajal and thank you for all the listeners that have supported the show thus far. \[00:58:43\] I hope I can continue to bring more quality shows just like this one to your earbuds in the near future. So thank you again and with strength, thank you.