> ## Content Index > Fetch the complete content index at: https://adamringler.com/llms.txt > Use this file to discover other available public pages before exploring further. # #001 Matt Shadeed - URL: https://adamringler.com/podcast/001/ - Published: 2017-02-13T23:27:09.000Z - Updated: 2026-10-20T07:14:24.000Z - Author: Adam Ringler - Tags: Decoding Excellence, #podcast, Coaching and Leadership, Career Development In this episode of the Decoding Excellence show I am speaking with **Coach Matt Shadeed**, the Director of Strength & Conditioning for Arkansas State University. Matt and I discuss leadership strategies, staff development, and the many lessons learned from navigating his career to his current position. We discuss: - His path into coaching - Why Matt focused on leadership development - What is his central focus - Significant mentors in his coach development - The mistakes he's made along the way ## Key Takeaways: What This Conversation Is Really About I started the Decoding Excellence Show to explore the human element behind world-class performers. This first conversation set the template. Matt's career is a case study in the principles I have built my own coaching life around. Here is what I took from it, and what I believe every young coach should hear. **1\. Leadership Is A Skill, Not A Trait.** Matt focused on leadership development deliberately, and that choice shaped his entire career. I could not agree more. Leadership is a skill that can be taught, and it needs to be practiced often to maintain an optimal level of proficiency. The weight room is the best leadership laboratory in sports. Every session is a rep. Do not waste them. I have written more on leadership as a learnable coaching skill here: [On Coaching and LeadershipCoaching requires a great understanding of leadership that is rarely taught in any kinesiology or exercise science coursework. You will rarely find it taught in any conference or certification body. IAdam Ringler](https://adamringler.com/on-coaching-and-leadership/) **2\. Mentors Compound.** Every coach I respect can name the people who shaped them. A mentor once told me, "What you see is what you coach." Another lived by, "Always Earned, Never Given." These lines become doctrine if you let them. Find people worth imitating, steal their best thinking, and then pay it forward. I believe every coach should have a mentor and a protege at least once in their life. It is your responsibility to give back to this profession. **3\. Mistakes Are Tuition. Pay It Gladly.** Matt was honest about the mistakes he made climbing the ladder. That honesty is the whole game. Struggle and mistakes are the mechanism of growth, not the obstacle to it. The coaches who last are not the ones who avoided failure. They are the ones who ran the post-mortem, extracted the lesson, and went again. Fear of a mistake should NEVER lead to a failure to take action. **4\. Develop Your Staff Like You Develop Your Athletes.** Staff development is not an HR function. It is coaching. Give your people the end goal and let them choose their own methods. Hire people brighter than you and get out of their way. Young coaches are more enthused by the opportunity to grow educationally than financially, so invest in their growth and they will run through walls for the program. **5\. Accomplish The Mission. Protect The Team. In That Order.** The leaders who endure do two things: they get the job done, and they take care of their people. They take responsibility for failures and give the team credit for victories. They sacrifice feelings and emotions for accomplishing the mission when the moment demands it. That is the standard, and it is non-negotiable. This episode of the Decoding Excellence show is brought to you by Vald Performance, the makers of the NordBord, DashBord, and the GroinBar. They can be found at [ValdPerformance.com](http://www.valdperformance.com/?ref=adamringler.com) Stay updated with the podcast by following me on Twitter via @AdamRinglerIn addition to those social mediums, you can head over to [AdamRingler.com/Newsletter](http://www.adamringler.com/newsletter?ref=adamringler.com) and sign-up for my weekly newsletter. This is a newsletter for the curious. It's chalked full of interesting articles I've read through the week, things I'm exploring and finding fascinating through my week, and a collections of thought experiences and resources I've cultivated. *It's essentially a Birchbox newsletter for performance-related articles, research, and daily musings.* Thanks again for listening to the Decoding Excellence Show! I appreciate all the support growing this Sport Science, Strength & Conditioning, and High-Performance Coaching resource. If you have taken anything away from the show, please login to iTunes and navigate to the [Decoding Excellence](https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/decoding-excellence/id1205636566?mt=2&ref=adamringler.com) page and leave us a review. --- --- ## Key Takeaways - Leadership is a skill, not a trait. Shadeed focused on leadership development deliberately, and that choice shaped his entire career. The weight room is the best leadership laboratory in sports, and every session is a rep. - Mentors compound. Find people worth imitating, steal their best thinking, and pay it forward. Every coach should have a mentor and a protege at least once. - Mistakes are tuition. The coaches who last are not the ones who avoided failure. They are the ones who ran the post-mortem, extracted the lesson, and went again. - Develop your staff like you develop your athletes. Give your people the end goal and let them choose their own methods. Hire people brighter than you and get out of their way. - Accomplish the mission, protect the team, in that order. Take responsibility for failures and give the team credit for victories. ## About the Guest Matt Shadeed is the Director of Strength and Conditioning for Arkansas State University. He and Adam discuss his path into coaching, his deliberate focus on leadership development, the mentors who shaped him, and the mistakes he made along the way. ## Listen and Subscribe Find this episode of the Decoding Excellence Show on [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/decoding-excellence/id1205636566?ref=adamringler.com) and [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/093GVrPwd9l832q3EWhVKc?ref=adamringler.com), or use the player above. --- ## Go Further in This Episode Enjoyed this conversation? Here is how to get more from it: - **Read the transcript below** to revisit key ideas at your own pace. - **Share this episode** with a coach or colleague who would benefit. - **Subscribe to the Decoding Excellence Show** on [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/decoding-excellence/id1205636566?ref=adamringler.com), [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/093GVrPwd9l832q3EWhVKc?ref=adamringler.com), or your favorite app. - **Join the newsletter** at [adamringler.com/newsletter](https://adamringler.com/newsletter/) for weekly insights on human performance. --- ## Episode Transcript *This transcript was automatically generated. While we strive for accuracy, some words or phrases may be misheard.* \[00:00:00\] If leadership was an easy task, everybody that ever tried would be awesome at what they do. That's not the case. Leadership is a very, very, very vicious task. Sports science, strength and addition, high performance coaching. Welcome to the Decoding Excellence show. \[00:00:22\] Today's episode is brought to you by Bald Performance, the makers of the Nordboard. If you haven't checked out the website yet, I highly suggest you head over there now. The Nordboard is a revolutionary performance technology that allows you as a practitioner to assess the hamstring strengths of your athletes you're working with. Whether it's rehabilitation, return to play, or performance testing, ball of performance, has the tools you need. \[00:00:51\] Today on the show, I talk with Matt Shadeed, Director of Strength and Ditioning at Arkansas State University. This is a wide-ranging conversation and we talk everything from leadership development, staff development, what he looks for when he hires new coaches, essentially the pillars and the foundations and the standards of his program when he discusses it and shares it with student athletes and the coaches he works with on a daily basis. \[00:01:18\] I personally took a lot away from this conversation and I know that Coach Adid does a tremendous job here and I hope that you can take one thing away today and apply it to your coaching to have an immediate impact. So without further ado, here's my conversation with Coach Matt Shadeed. Matt, welcome to the show. Thanks, boss. How are you doing? \[00:01:42\] I'm doing well. You know, we have a women's basketball game here that's starting in about one hour, so things are going pretty good out in which to how about yourself? Beautiful. Yeah, we got a nice relaxing Sunday afternoon here in Jonesboro, Arkansas. We're starting our fourth quarter, Matt Drill, kind of circuit in the morning, tomorrow morning, Monday morning at 6 a.m. So we're going to be busy tonight just kind \[00:02:08\] Of getting snack bags set up and our equipment organized and all our sheets ready and things like that. It's the first go round because you've got so many people that are involved in the rodeo workouts. It's pretty tedious as far as the setup goes the first time and then it normally starts to roll after that. So we're going to knock this out and then spend some time with my staff tonight \[00:02:27\] Getting ready for the morning, but that's about it. Now that I think about it, it's been almost nine years since I've been back at Michigan State University and being surrounded by a football program. And to watch Can Mani prepare for the fourth quarter program and just the excitement and the enthusiasm and the camaraderie that that shared brotherhood and that shared experience brings. It's awesome. \[00:02:50\] Yeah, it's exciting. We're definitely looking forward to it in the morning. Coach, I'd love to start at square one and give you an opportunity to share your story because I think you have a fantastic story and journey along this coaching career pathway that we all take. And I'd love for you to dive in and explore and share with the listening audience how you found yourself at Arkansas State University in the role that you currently do. \[00:03:21\] And take us back to maybe your high school days and college days and significant influencers and mentors that you've had and provide an update and just kind of share how you got into this. I'd love to hear about that. That seems fascinating to me. And I think it will be fascinating to the listening audience as well. Yeah, sure, absolutely. So my name is Matt Shadeed. Currently the director of Strength and Conditioning at Arkansas State University here in Jonesboro, Arkansas. \[00:03:49\] I guess just kind of run back to start. I'm originally from Birmingham, Alabama. You know, grew up playing all kinds of sports was a football baseball basketball track and field golf type of guy. Just anything on the sun, you know, my dad was a big athlete. You know, I see grew up and obviously in his younger years and it just kind of rolled down to us. We were always busy doing stuff as a family because everybody was, you know, athletics kind of going on in our household. I guess growing up. So I was a very mediocre athlete in high school. \[00:04:19\] But you know, that's kind of where I fell in love with the weight room because I began to realize that. You know, as I put time in and worked on myself and ate better and stayed after and got up extra shots and you know, spin extra time in the gym. I kind of began to fall in love with the process of investing in myself. And I think that's kind of where it really all started for me and you know, on a on a on a further note, I became very interested in the body. And just how it responded to weight training and how when I ate better, I felt better and, you know, beginning to understand what like what it really meant to get good sleep and how I could go harder and longer at practice. And the guys around me because I was doing things, you know, off the field or off the court that were helping me and assisting me. \[00:04:58\] So, you know, I really just kind of had this passion for athletics and this passion for, you know, taking care of myself and the process. And again, directly with, you know, avenues of strength and conditioning and nutrition and extra skill work and things like that. So, you know, I decided upon finishing up at Spain Park High School again and Birmingham Alabama in 2005\. I took myself to the University of Southern Miss and had his bird Mississippi and had had some thoughts early on about trying to walk on as a basketball player and then just decided, you know what, it was never really in the cards for me. And I didn't have this like deep burning desire to, you know, play, play athletics, I guess at the collegiate level. But I knew that if I was going to go there, it was an opportunity for me to study exercise physiology because the program in human performance at Southern Miss was really, really, really good. And I had an opportunity to get an academic scholarship there to help kind of pay the way with some of the out of state stuff. So I went to Southern Miss and knew that's what I wanted to do and immediately dove in. \[00:06:02\] You know, obviously was there for four years, great college experience, my, my time at Southern Miss in the classroom prepared me for, you know, the things that were to come in my future career. So, you know, fast forward four and a half years, December 2009\. And what was actually when I graduated, but, you know, that summer end of July, I had the opportunity to go to LSU and intern from Alissa Moore and Tommy Moffitt in the, in the North Stadium weight room, Louisiana State University. So that was kind of where it really started for me. Dr. Mike Webster, who's now at Valdosta State, was really the catalyst for that relationship. He was my advisor at Southern Miss and really, really, really stuck his neck out there for me to be able to go. And start at such a prestigious place. I mean, when you think about the mecca of strength and conditioning and how it's done at the college level, obviously LSU and Tommy Moffitt, or, you know, some of the first names that come to mind, I mean, what a storied program in tradition that he's built there. And so I got in touch through Dr. Webster with Melissa Moore, I was able to go there and start an internship in August of 2009\. Again, finished in December. So it was there for a short stint. And then that actually kind of concluded my undergrad work at Southern Miss and was very fortunate from there to immediately land a graduate assistantship at Nova Southeastern University in Fort Lauderdale, Florida as a D2 school. \[00:07:24\] Obviously beautiful landscape down there in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. So I was excited about that because I was young and, you know, excited about exploring new opportunities, I guess, at that point. So I went down there and had an unbelievable experience. The division two level was something that I think was really cool and is contributed to just to kind of my overall knowledge of how things work at different levels. And I think it's been a huge attribute just for me in my career, being able to experience that because it is very different than the division one level. While I was down there, I got to spend some time with Bill Faran, the director of Strength and Conditioning for the Miami Heat. Basically did like a, I would call it like a mentorship and I'll probably get to talk back about this story a little bit later because he's somebody that really inspired me, you know, again, as a young guy in 2324 while I'm down there about just just what it means to be a real professional and what it really means to be vulnerable and open and a student of the game. Great experience down there worked with a lot of teams was there for about a year and a half again got to spend some time with coach Faran and the heat. And then as I finished my master's degree was fortunate enough to get a call from coach Paul Jackson, who's currently the director of football strength and conditioning at Ole Miss. \[00:08:36\] And he is basically a part time intern or a paid intern position and I was fortunate enough to get on staff with him there at Southern Miss in the in the 2011 year. So was there for about six months. We had a heck of a year on the football field that season I worked with women's softball women's basketball, which was a great experience because I got to really dive into some of my own programming at a higher level while also being a part of a very successful football program. And then that December you know when the football carousel started rolling our head football coach Larry Fedora went to North Carolina and coach Paul Jackson actually got a call from Hugh Freeze to take the head football strength job at Ole Miss again where he currently is now. And again was was fortunate enough enough to be able to go with him there was at Ole Miss for two years 2012 and 2013\. And then you know was was again in the right spot at the right time and fortunate enough to have a couple of the right connections Blake Anderson was currently the offensive coordinator at North Carolina. \[00:09:43\] And it just taken the head job at Arkansas State and it basically referred back to coach Jackson because we had all shared some time together at Southern Miss where he had worked for Larry Fedora as well and said you know him. I'm looking for a guy want a program similar to yours I want the energy I want the culture I want the enthusiasm some things that you're going to bring to the table. Obviously in my mind he's one of the best doing it right now and I can see why people would refer back to him to see kind of who's next up on that train or in that tree. And coach Jackson gave him my name and we interviewed in December of 13 literally while we were at the ball site we're at the music city ball getting ready to play Pittsburgh. And interview with coach Anderson found out the day after the game that I got the job and then literally I guess the past three years here at Arkansas State have pretty much been history from there. So there's a hopefully not too long too long winded but that's kind of that's kind of the story. \[00:10:34\] I'm by no means a seasoned veteran in this profession but what I find fantastic and fascinating is that the longer I've been in this field you truly get to realize how small of an industry this really is. And I think it's paramount for all of us to be tremendous professionals to the people that surround us whether it's an intern a graduate assistant assistant coach a director a student athletic trainer professional intern doesn't matter. You'll start to realize how significant these people are and you never truly understand their influence and the power and the network that this small profession has until three, four, five years down the road when you're applying somewhere else or you're needing a recommendation how important it is to be a great professional and to be a true mentor to the people that surround your profession. So one of the many reasons why I wanted to have you on the show today is because I think you do something so tremendous that not a lot of other coaches do and that your time and commitment that you put into staff development and leadership development for your student athletes is bar none and I would first love to explore that aspect of this conversation. So what is leadership development as you define it and how do you develop it in your student athletes? Leadership in my mind and again I think this would be the avenue of leading my staff or leading our student athletes is simply serving and there's a lot of different facets to how you would define service but I think it's essentially the removal of yourself and the investment in others. \[00:12:26\] If that is short and clear enough for you, I would say that in my mind is leadership. To follow up, how do you go about developing that leadership? What do you do differently and what are your strategies to drawing out the very best leaders of your staff and your student athletes? I mean I think it ultimately comes down to you know giving them great clarity and obviously let me start by saying this nothing great is ever going to come if you don't have great people. So one of the first things that I'd be remiss if I didn't mention is we have unbelievable people here that work on our staff in the strength and conditioning department in Arkansas state. We wouldn't be a quarter of what we are you know again and we don't necessarily measure that out but but we wouldn't be a quarter of what we are if we didn't have great people working for us. \[00:13:15\] So I think it starts with bringing in great people and you know the the opportunity for me to be able to show them. I think the right way to do things again starts with clarity and then it's just it's it's serving it goes back to what I said earlier just serving and leading by example and removing myself from the equation. Not necessarily worrying about you know the daily template of administrative things I have or football you know and sometimes even family my wife and my son because they're bought into our overall mission of serving our staff. And and leading by example not being a guy that sits at the top of the hill and barks orders I never was a fan of that I never wanted to be that person if I ever got the chance to assume a leadership role and now that I've been in it you know and it's easy to say that like yeah I want to get in the trenches and I want to work right along. Side you know with our people but it's another thing to live that in ferociously live that on a daily basis because it takes a lot you know but but I remind our staff all the time and even some of our guys you know we've got a group right now in the fall. Excuse me this winter that we're really trying to kind of push in front of our team because they're the guys that do stuff the right way and it's funny how frustrated some of them get so quickly we've only been going for three weeks and like man I I'm really trying to talk to him coach and I'm trying to bring him along he's I said listen guys. \[00:14:30\] If leadership was an easy task everybody that ever tried would be awesome at what they do it's not the case leadership is a very very very vicious task it is not for the week or timid and there are no days off literally no days off and that's not a Twitter message or some lip service or you know like let me flex in front of my staff or our guys you I mean you literally have to do it every single second of every single day if you want to be successful in a leadership role so. You know again just just trying to be that light and be that guy that again is rubbing elbow elbow with our staff and our players and saying hey listen it's a tough task but we're all in it together we're all going to push each other forward so. You know just just attacking it every day and we're going to circle back to the people that you surround yourself with and how important that is to the success of your program but before I do that I want to dive into the idea of having no days off and having consistent leadership which I find it to be absolutely crucial to the success of a program you can't be one person on Monday and a different leader on Tuesday the consistency of leadership the consistency of standards is absolutely necessity. Did you find this as a necessary point of emphasis for you at Arkansas State you know I really want to say I think it started because I never really understood the real value. Of kind of bringing a dynamic personality and an enthusiasm to the table when I when I first started I was very interested in you know X's and O's and programming and linear speed development and movement you know like there's so many things about this field that just you know really really really just inspired my mind and drove me to be a professional in this realm. \[00:16:19\] But then watching and being around coaches you know Paul Jackson is the first one that comes to mind that that bringing on a daily basis and have a fire for what they do and bring energy and watch guys buy into the message and the passion not even so much for what he's saying or the things that he's preaching but because because the energy and the enthusiasm and the fire for what he believes in is there. And so really understanding like wow this this stuff has way way way more of an impact and influence on these young men in any type of you know set rep scheme or periodization cycle I could build like that's not it and I learned very quickly that you all that stuff on the paper is great. But it doesn't mean anything if you're not selling it and you don't believe it and you don't live it every day and these kids aren't willing to bend over backwards for what's on that card or what's on that sheet or what's on the menu for the run. It doesn't matter so so watching coach Jackson and then getting the chance to obviously come here and kind of start to build that myself you know one of the things we said when we started was like we're going to bring great enthusiasm every day. And you know I'd be a liar if I was going to try to sit here and say we had it all figured out to start but I do tell you this one thing we knew was that we were going to bring enthusiasm every single day. And you could see within a couple weeks of us being brand new that like guys just really bought into that like hey man every day I come in here I feel like I'm valued I feel like I'm getting the truth told to me I feel like I'm being pushed in a positive way. \[00:17:45\] And seeing the seeing the kickback from our players you know just immediately reminded me like this is why this is so important. And then you know I began to connect the dots and obviously I'm going to lead our guys but I'm also going to lead our staff and just making sure that you know wow if this is this important you know for the buying for our players and I'm going to try to come you know or I shouldn't say try to come in here but I'm going to try to bring people in here and develop them as leaders and then send them out to hopefully bigger better things and this has to be a paramount of our teaching philosophy as far as you know staff development education goes so. I would say just early interactions and again not just with what we did but watching other coaches who really brought really could grab kids hearts and get them to buy in it really encouraged me to say like hey this is a huge this is a huge piece of what you're going to be able to do as a professional and again you can just kind of watch our literature shift over the past three years. And it's way more focused on the inspiration and the enrichment of our kids and our staff as opposed to you know we're going to build this great program and we're going to be in great shape and we're going to be tougher than our opponents like that's still there but it's falling way down the priority list if that makes sense no no I think it's yeah it's crystal clear on that you mentioned a couple names and I just kind of want to revisit that because I think. So much of us especially at this sort of generation of strength coaches right now strength conditioning professionals stand on the shoulders of giants but with this leadership sort of emphasis are there anyone that you consider a mentors of yours as far as what they do consistently day in day out and if so what is it about them that. Excel your own emphasis or excel your own proficiency in leadership development again I would have to go back to coach Paul Jackson I mean I spent so much of my time as a young coach you know under his tutelage and mentorship just that the daily fire for wanting to do whatever we needed to do for our kids to be better. \[00:19:52\] To see his passion on a daily basis you know to come in and to bring up questions about things that he was reading and you know pitch him amongst the staff and we have these long like two and a half hour dissective conversations and there was no ego there was no winner loser it was just all like let's try to get as confused as we possibly can so then we can actually come to like some founded ground on what's right or what's wrong and like seeing him lead us like that was so inspiring because. I realize like you don't have to be right all the time because I still thought he was the smartest guy I'd ever been around even when he said okay I got you that makes sense I like that you know and for me to hear those words as like a 25 year old assistant of his you know every now and then and for us to just get into these long conversations and to pitch all these ideas to everyone and just. Constantly be trying to find ways to make our kids better we would dissect and analyze everything not to the point that it paralyzed us it was in a very positive way but. Just to go through and continue to to be progressive on a daily basis I think that was one of the biggest avenues you know again particularly that he used that really inspired me was was just a progressive nature in the fire and his belly to do whatever. It took to to give our kids the best situation or environment to grow themselves as a young man and as college football players you know when I even look back at the mentors I've had it in my young coaching career. I think it's a similar story that we all share that we all had someone that took us under their wing helped us out helped develop us and I just find it so. \[00:21:30\] Crucial to continue to pay it forward to other young coaches in the industry I want to circle back to something you said earlier in this conversation about surrounding yourself at the very best people and I found as I really hone in on the people I invest my time with that the quality of work that we all do has. Exponentially increased so I want to ask you what are the qualities that you look for in the coaches that you hire or put into leadership positions I love it that's a great question thank you for asking that. Here's the here's the biggest thing here's what I'm not looking for I guess I should say what I'm not worried about and I think this sometimes I talk with other people and it kind of boggles their mind a little bit but I think it has built. The staff that we currently have and again it's been uber effective because we have unbelievable people right now that are doing unbelievable things so. The first thing that I guess I think it's important because I'm not really worried about your proficiency in Microsoft Excel your ability to coach the Olympic lifts you know your linear speed development background how many degrees or certifications you have I'm not worried about any of that and I think that. Makes us very unique and again we're not just trying to be different just to be different I think it's built who we are so I try to shy away from those things now again three years ago that's probably all I was looking at because I didn't we didn't know any better I wasn't there yet as a leader and I think obviously we're still not there yet but I think we're getting closer to where we want to be on a daily basis and that's the ultimate goal i'm looking for great people. \[00:23:08\] Period i don't care who you are where you've been what you look like how much you squat your experiences your degrees anything like that now are those things important and into some of them have to be in place to have a foundation of you even being a name in the conversation absolutely let's not be confused about that but. I am I am so far remiss from from from being interested in those things that is not even funny I want to find. And I want to seek out people who match up with our core values i'll run through them real quick so this will give you an idea of what i'm looking for when I hire people family first that means nobody left behind you're you're interested in being here and becoming a part of a family not just being somebody that wants to show up to work punch the clock and then go be by themselves for you know the rest of the day or the rest of their time here. I want you to be selfless and I want you to be service based i'm looking for people who are very very very consistent that is the number one way that we create our cultures through consistency so if you can't do it every day i'm not interested in having professional maturity that just means being being a the utmost a consummate professional in every sense of the word. Being grateful being patient being innovative authentic humble having a passion for your purpose that is an individual why that you have a fire for because everybody's going to be a little bit different we're going to have a mission that we collectively agree on but I want you to have an individual why. And in a vision and goals that you want to chase every day and I want you to have passion for those things and in somebody who is not going to be a complainer or a negative energy or what I call like a leech I want somebody who's going to bring great enthusiasm. \[00:24:43\] Energy on a daily basis so those are those are some things that I want to see for I guess from an intangible standpoint I want to see people line up with with our core values that's our spine we called our backbone that is who we are if you match that not only will you be really successful here I believe that you'll be really successful in life as a husband as a daughter as a you know as a as a Christian as a follower as a finance year whatever you want to do in life you will be successful if you can do those things really really well. And you'll obviously have great success with us so none of those things again have anything to do with platform mobility programming you know percentages energy systems anything like that I think that is a really really neat question I'm glad you asked it and I hope that makes sense you've got to have some of those things obviously to to be certified and to be qualified in our field but beyond a base level of just kind of some of those building blocks that are that are essential that's what I'm looking for I want great people to come in here and be on our step. To do great things I'm not going to put you in a box I'm not going to say this is how we do things here and you better do it this way because that's the only way to do it no we're going to live by a mission and we're going to live by a few standards of execution and then other than that I want you to be the great person that we hired and I want you to go do great things and I think it kind of comes back to the idea of sort of this swing pendulum between artistry of coaching and the understanding of what it takes to be a great coach and the science necessary to do. Do this position and do this job and I think we're we're maybe on the advent with sports science and technology swinging too far in the direction of the access the actual access and notes and I think we're maybe losing touch of the artistry the communication the understanding of behaviors the understanding of what it means to be selfless and consistent and professional and I think those are crucial to developing as a coach that can execute. We're going to do a sound program and here's another thing too while we're on that topic real quick is I think this is important if I'm doing my job as a leader and our executive staff you know our assistant directors and our full time coaches are doing a great job with what they do then we'll be able to teach everybody that we bring in our graduate assistants our paid interns our volunteer interns our new staff members we will be able to teach and educate on the exes and those I think if we're doing our job correctly we can build that. As you know those core values that backbone who we are those things are those things are tough to shift especially in very mature individuals or adults you know maybe 22 and above who are looking for jobs it's really hard to just build those are just change those you know on a whim so we want that to be the foundation of who we are and then again I think if I'm doing my job and our staff is doing their job and we're all interested in getting better every single day the exes and those are kind of second nature and we're going to be able to grow and we're going to be able to teach and we're going to be able to learn from each other. \[00:27:43\] So we have those core values that make us so open so vulnerable so removed from our ego so willing to learn new things you know I think that's important you talked about having a personal purpose what would be the purpose that wakes you up every morning right now like what motivates you to get out of bed put your shoes on grab your you know grab your whistle grab your jacket head on out to the gym at what I'm doing. What I would only imagine is incredibly early in the morning to start Matt Drill's coming tomorrow what is that purpose that that fuels you to wake up every morning man you know I think it's really multifaceted for me personally and again this is where I think everybody's a little different I mean you know I know first off like you know when I get up in the morning I just utter a short little prayer thank you Lord for waking me up this morning and blessing my beautiful family with such fulfillment and joy on a daily basis and I'm just I pray that we use our platform for your glory while we advance your word I think I think that's one of the biggest thing that really gets my mind right in the morning is just saying thank you Lord for waking me up because I know that if it wasn't for you none of this would be possible and then obviously as soon as I finish uttering those words and start moving about in a really dark bedroom I mean it's easy to it's easy to to take that quick glance and look at my wife just passed out and look at my past out we've got two dogs Addy and Blue a chocolate lab and a pit bull and everybody's just passed out comfortable in the covers in the bed and what a great reminder every day that those individuals those people and animals right there are these single most important thing to me in this whole world and why would I not want to go be the best I can possibly be for them not for myself again you got to get out of your own way but looking at them and saying man how fortunate are we how blessed are we that we can have this house and have these things and have these have these happy moments and and a home full of joy why would I not want to go out and just be better every day and just impact people the right way every day so looking at them is is really kind of a great reminder for me and I think that's a great one to punch because it's obviously my faith and my family that are the first reminders and then you know as I kind of continue to model around in the morning the things that really get me focused is like reminding myself that it's not about me I say that all the time \[00:30:10\] I've done a couple podcasts and some presentations and it it always goes back to that reminding myself I literally say this to myself it's not about you it's not about you it's not about you it's not about you I don't care how you feel I don't care how tired you are how sore you are how many things you have on the template for the day you know if you're not feeling well it's not about me it's about my wife it's about my son it's about my family it's about our players it's about our staff it's about our community it's about the people that are going to work side by side with me for 14 hours today it's about giving them my all so just reminding myself that it's not about me you know to to kind of go attack the day and then just trying to find ways I challenge myself every day just be better than you were the day before it's kind of that one one percent mentality we don't have to go get everything right now I'm not going to be perfect I'm going to make plenty of mistakes you know every single day but find ways it chase every avenue to be better than you were the day before and I think some of those those affirmations to myself you know really help me calculate that my mindset that I've got to go do it every day so I think that I think that gives you a little a little insight into to think to the things that keep me going I would call it you know some of that's my why Eric Thomas the hip-hop preacher ET you always talks about having your why when you've got a why you know the how the what the win all that becomes very easy you know my wise are again my faith and my family and doing it for the people you know who who brought me up like my friends back home and my colleagues across the country and people that have mentored me like I don't want to just in my career and be okay and then have coach Jackson say oh yeah well that was one of the guys that I pushed out and he's doing an okay job out there he's you know he's he's pretty good I don't \[00:31:48\] Want to be pretty good I don't want to be okay I don't want to have my father who taught me everything that it means to be a man I don't want him to have to say like hey man you're doing some good stuff like I want him to be proud and I want him to say you know that's my son and he's doing great things and you know I want to have a legendary career in this field as a professional and again that's not that's not categorized by the money that you make or the place that you're at that's that's about the impacts that you have on people in your influence and the way that you're able to affect people on a daily basis so I want to I want to chase those things on a daily basis I don't want to go down you \[00:32:22\] Know just just being a guy who who showed up and did his work and you know how I had a nice career that that scares the crap out of me saying it like that I want to be legendary I want to be different I want to be somebody who's paving away you know for for for young coaches and and for people that are coming up in this field so that that's kind of what gives me you know no doubt you know I think there's no better way of trying to remind you know you as a coach about you know what's your purpose why you wake up then the addition of a family especially when you have you know a son or you have a wife or you have a husband or whatever you know I'm going to wake up \[00:32:56\] To be great because I need to be great for my family I need to be great for the family that I have both at home and the family that I have at work and the family that I serve I'd love to go down this narrative of exploring the mistakes we've all made along our coaching journey and I'd love for you to describe the mistakes that you've made but also what did you learn from making those mistakes what did you take away from them that made you a better coach today oh yeah that's tough to start because there's a million you know without even getting into like very very very particular \[00:33:36\] Ones I mean I could literally go through and rattle off probably about three solid mistakes per day in my first year of being the director of strength and conditioning here so that would probably take up the next you know 38 hours of your podcast I don't I'd be on that long but you know just I think impatience in a in a very general sense was it was a huge mistake that I continued to make my very first year because I wanted everything to be so perfect and I was so just OCD about everything being absolutely correct and if it wasn't correct then it was just wrong and I was a failure \[00:34:10\] And things like that and I wasn't ever necessarily afraid to fail but I think that was definitely a mistake that I made a lot was was being impatient and just not understanding that there is a process to building a culture and building a team and building a family here at Arkansas State I think sometimes another mistake again in a very general sense because I've done this a million times I'm probably still doing it now is trying to bear too much of the load \[00:34:35\] There's the there's the macho male ego inside of me screaming like you can do it it's your work just handle it but that's that's wrong it's not I've got great people around me that can help offset some of the things that I've got to do on a daily basis and I just have this mentality sometimes of like it's mod I need to do it and that's not good because it takes away from it takes away from family time again whether it be family at home or family here with the staff and kind of running myself thin sometimes and not giving work and opportunities to the people around me so I think \[00:35:06\] Those are probably a couple big ones but I think one thing that I learned early on was not being afraid to fail and I've really run with this in the more recent history as opposed to early it's we talked about we had a culture committee that we do with our players all student athletes are invited we do it on Wednesday nights in the summertime and the first summer that we did it we had a John Maxwell excerpt that's in his daily reader and it talks about failing forward versus failing backwards and obviously I was preparing the stuff that week for our kids but it's just one of those \[00:35:37\] And you'll know what I'm talking about when I say this because you have those like aha moments in this reading this passage and getting it prepared for our kids it was just smacking me in the face you know what I mean when I say that like I was hello coach like earth to scratch a deed this is written for you right now and it really became a piece of like what what we not only talked about that night but that we talked about a lot moving forward with not just our football players but a lot of our student athletes showed to that particular meeting and and also with our staff is not being \[00:36:04\] Afraid to fail one but understanding that failure is a failure is essential failure is a necessity it's guaranteed on your path of success and what I really began to understand more than anything was that the more that I failed the better I will be and again I was younger and dumber and more immature than than I am now I think and I didn't understand that I was like what no I want to be perfect I can't fail I got to do this every no no no no it's okay and and failure again is like the stomping ground it's like the it's like where the the birth of success comes from like all your \[00:36:38\] Failures and I really started to understand that not meaning that I'm going to go out and just try to bomb stuff every day but being okay with making mistakes and you know those those trial and error periods that I call sometimes I do it with our interns you know we just got a couple and I'll give you an example we just got a couple in for the winter semester professional interns to two great young coaches that are that are volunteering with us this winter and I basically we go through an inculturation excuse me inculturation process in the winter where we basically talk about \[00:37:06\] Our staff mission core values standards of execution and some of our house rules it's very very specific these are the things that I'm going to demand of you every single day and then that's really it to start we don't do a huge like in service on every program or anything like that I want again I want great people to come in and be great people but that little trial and error period is awesome because we've used it before and it's really helped us grow our coaches and it teaches them that it's okay to make mistakes it is it is okay to fail you're going to grow yourself if you're okay \[00:37:37\] With failure it also teaches our young coaches and interns to to lead themselves to go you know not just have a checklist of hey on Tuesdays you need to have a B C D E G and F done you know by 11 o'clock because all we're essentially doing is teaching people to be really good at following directions and I said early on we're not going to do that I don't want to create a bunch of followers I want to create some leaders man and it gives them an opportunity to gain real confidence not like fake confidence like hey I checked the box I did a good job today no this is like in the trenches like \[00:38:10\] The fire is hot I messed up and I got better real confidence and it also gives me a chance like really honestly evaluate them because if I tell them hey I need you to go do all this stuff and they're really good at doing what I say I don't really know what their what their flaws what their weaknesses and what some of their deficiencies are um so we've literally almost built that thought of it's okay to fail into a process with our new hires or with our volunteer interns of listen we're going to bring in and we're going to enculturate you we're going to give you the basics \[00:38:39\] And then we're going to kind of let you go for what I consider like a two week trial period and you're going to mess up a lot you're probably going to be confused you might be a little bit lost sometimes but then we bring it all back in and then we start opening the gates of question conversation and detail and feedback and things like that and it is awesome because I think it sets the ground for hey it's okay to fail uh and it's really really neat to watch watch our staff grow within that thought process out of all the conversations that I've had with other coaches \[00:39:07\] I think what you shared was probably the most common response in that I think the leaders especially from a director from a head coach it seems to be that the biggest mistake they've shared is just the the fact of trying to take on too much or trying to do all of their work themselves and not necessarily delegation and it's it's something I battle with on a daily basis and uh and I think you you said something in here that just said that by you giving other opportunities to your staff members or to interns you're not just creating followers but you're empowering them you're giving \[00:39:48\] Them an opportunity to do a job and do it incredibly well and I think that sets them up for repetitive successes when they have those opportunities because especially it helps you it helps your program it allows you to maybe focus your attention on other tasks but it ultimately gives them an opportunity to achieve some greatness and again I won't want to steal too much of your time but I do want to dive into a few different things as we sort of get towards the end of this you talked about creating this idea of of an excellent program you don't want to just be good you would hate that \[00:40:33\] Down the road that you just did an okay job you want to be great you want to do a tremendous excellent job and obviously with this this podcast I'm trying to tease out some of the things the excellent coaches like yourself do and I I would love to hear from you what you think it means to be excellent what it ultimately we strip away the wins the loss the championships won the championships lost what what doesn't mean to be an excellent coach I think it you know I feel like I have such a simple answer here but I feel like it's such a dynamic question I don't want to just be short \[00:41:11\] But I think that you know like you said it's exactly right it's not measured by you know the poundage that you add on a back squat pdr it's not wins and losses it's it's not a 40 time you know decrement or an ability for one of your kids to play at the next level in my mind the the ability to be excellent is and it's kind of hard because these these things are fairly immeasurable but just the width and the depth of your impacts and I talked to our staff about that a lot it's not necessarily the number or the quantity because some kids as hard as you try you know they're just they're going \[00:41:50\] To be tougher eggs to crack I definitely think you can impact everyone but it's really those ones that are like you know those those above and beyond type of deals where you know three four or five years later down the road you're getting messages back from players or from former staff members and they're talking to you about you know just how much they appreciated the things that you did form on a daily basis the passion the leadership the example that you set again how do you measure really really hard one thing that we do here that I think is really neat I stole this from Dave \[00:42:24\] Anderson he's a leadership guru we have what we call the impact wall so like sometimes those messages or those you know those those those Twitter deals or pictures or whatever you want to call them like something in the form of a of a feedback handwritten notes are great and we post them up and it it's kind of a measurable way for us to I guess look at the impacts that we've made because obviously a lot of them have to do with you know thank you for this or you change me here or you impacted my life like this and again is that the best way to do it I don't know but I think it's \[00:42:55\] Pretty neat because it reminds us every day that you know our mission is working and it's an active mission that we have to continue to chase every single day and sometimes in the moment you know this as well as I do you don't always get that great feedback like my father who I learned tremendous amounts of lessons from in the moment he would have never known that because I was too stupid to say man I really appreciate you thank you so much it was more of a like suck my teeth just do don't know what he's talking about like I got this you know when I was young and dumb and then \[00:43:23\] Now it's to the point where obviously it all it all smacks me in the face like a two by four and it's like dude I hope I can the half as good as he was for me you know for for our players for my staff and for my son you know one day so that those the measurements again the depth and the width of just just how crucial and just how influential those impacts can be again not necessarily in a in a quantity type form but just the quality of of how you're able to inspire and rich and truly impact somebody's life I think that says a lot because again you know as well as I do there's a lot of \[00:44:03\] Great coaches out there that may not have the most winningest record or you know aren't doing the most cutting edge innovative things from a you know NFL combine preparatory standpoint who knows but there's people out there at all a bunch of levels you know high school college pro private sector you name it that are truly inspiring and impacting people on a daily basis and I think that's where the real measurement comes from as far as being an excellent coach being a legendary coach is the ability to to impact and influence people you know I I had a mentor once told me that \[00:44:39\] Going into strength conditioning was going to be a thankless job and you know especially if you attend bankwits you know it's usually mom dad god maybe head coach but I think what's so awesome and and I use that word truly as defined is when a kid stands at the podium and thanks you or when it's three four five years later and you get that telephone call and it's them telling telling you like hey you know what I didn't appreciate it then and it took me a couple years but I truly appreciate what you do and what you did for me in my young life and I think while you \[00:45:27\] Might not get the quantity of those moments the quality of those moments when you do reconnect with the student athlete and they share that impact that you had on them you don't know it day after day your your micro cycle or your meso cycle but it's it's really you know down the road four or five years later when you make that impact with the student athlete it's it's truly unbelievable I'll give you a good example this past year we had a we had a transfer a grad transfer wide receiver come in and this is one of those kids that it was like pulling teeth on a daily basis you know just \[00:46:02\] Really really gritty and I was always at him because he has a chance to be special he's preparing right now to hopefully get a chance to play at the next level just always on his back always in my office you know just we just we would go at it but it was in the in the most positive uplifting ways but he was one of those guys that just demanded a ton of attention from me and sometimes I felt like I was never getting through to him and again I say that and probably everybody listening is familiar with those athletes and as you are as well and you know it's just funny because you fight \[00:46:30\] That fight and you fight that fight and it's a good fight and you just keep fighting and you keep fighting it and you know this December we played in the cure bowl got a big win over central florida and he was the MVP of the game and after the game I was walking around in the locker room with my son so bear was with me's on my arm where I'll everybody's you know partying and dancing cell breaking and I had just stepped out into the hallway and he was coming out of the locker room from from a media interview and I'd already hugged him on the field I gave him another big hug I said man \[00:46:56\] You do not know how proud I am of you everything that you have that you have been blessed with you know because he's staying there holding his MVP trophy in his hand I said you have earned and he just kind of he smiled and he shook his head and he looked at bear and he said man he said you're not going to know this now but you'll know it one day you are beyond lucky to have that man as your father and I literally hugged him again and smiled and then in the hallway I started crying like a baby because if that don't hit home with you I don't know what does and again we could have lost that \[00:47:25\] Game by 50 but that comment right there who man you talk about changing your life and reminding you about what's important that's it right there yeah no doubt if that doesn't give you a sense of purpose of why you come into work every single day and why you wake up I mean I don't know what else will that's right you're lost if that doesn't help you well coach I want to I want to think if coming on I don't want to take too much of your Sunday I know you got a busy busy day ahead of you with setup and getting everything's ready if you could request something from anybody that \[00:47:59\] Heard this podcast heard the show what would be your request of the audience pay it forward pay it forward I uh I'm really big on like taking care of my staff and a lot of times that ends up probably being financially more than anything like I love to take everybody out to eat bring them over to eat buy the coffees buy the smoothies buy the you know somebody's going to go make a supplement run or something I'm like here just take my car um because and again not that it's about the money that's not it um but just I feel like that's what kind of dominates it sometimes but and again \[00:48:32\] We've got great people and they're always like no coach no no no one of my one of my staff members we do uh we do an evaluation every semester and one of my weaknesses uh he because I ask my staff members for them to identify my weaknesses as a leader and his number one weakness of mine was that you buy coffee too or you buy our coffees way too much um so that it's funny but you know they always ask like no no no you know like you can't do that and I said listen I'm going to and just accept it and appreciate that we get to help each other in this type of environment but my one request would be \[00:49:04\] That you pay it forward you know when you get a chance to go on and do bigger and better things and again it doesn't necessarily have to be monetarily but just pay it forward man serve the people around you love them on a daily basis challenge them to be better take care of them when you can you know let them you get somebody new on staff uh let them come live at your house if they can't find housing you know do do things like that uh and don't just be like you know so lost in the in the sense of what's going on you're just like oh I can't do this you know you're too kind uh \[00:49:31\] What do I do to repay you I can't you know I can't pay it by your coffee but that don't get lost in that my my one thing is just pay it forward the things that you believe are right uh and and dragging people the right way and again inspiring them and enriching them along the way continue to invest and and make those deposits in people uh and just pay it forward because that not only again comes right back to you in the form of uh us a self improvement but it changes our world like one person at a time you know it literally does and we need more positive things going \[00:50:05\] On in our society I mean shoot you turn on the TV or the internet Twitter it's a crazy world we live in right now we need more of the good stuff and it's out there and we just need people uh that believe in that good message to to keep driving it forward you know and and to pay it forward into into to just deliver it and lead it from the front oh man you're preaching to the choir for sure hey where uh coach where can people find you if they have a question they wanted to connect to you or maybe you know see some of the things that you're doing behind the scenes with both your staff \[00:50:33\] And and some of your football guys what's the best way they can reach uh where can they find you yeah a couple different ways I'm really big on uh trying to just be open uh for as many people as I can possibly get to so the easiest way for me to to to talk through things and do things is obviously on the phone I think email is hard because my time at my desk is very limited so I'll give you my work cell phone number right now it's 870 219 7240 if you've got questions feel free to shoot me a text message introduce yourself maybe we can follow it up with a phone call \[00:51:05\] Uh I think that's the that's a great way to do it um an email address again if you find that to be the best avenue uh what I'll probably do is respond back and say hey here's my number give me a call let's chat um but that's Matthew M-A-T-T-H-E-W Shedede S-H-A-D-E-E-D at a state dot edu uh and then obviously social media you know is where we all live and breathe these days unfortunately but uh Twitter handle and Instagram handle are at coach M Shedede so you'll see a lot of our stuff uh on Instagram it's you know mostly our videos and pictures and things related to our athletes and our \[00:51:42\] Staff and then you know Twitter I really try to use in a positive light and just make sure that you know things that are on the top of my head I put out there and also trying to retweet you know things that are positive and inspiring and you know culture related growth related so um you know both of those are some good looks fantastic I'll make sure to include those contacts uh in the show notes below as well coach I can't thank you enough for for giving up uh you know a portion of your Sunday to uh to come in and share some wisdom and you know I know that there's plenty on this \[00:52:12\] That a young coach can take away and and learn from and apply from and especially as they you know start their own journey to making maybe the transition or the jump from being insistent to ahead or going into a direct opposition the successes the failures the the the uh the pitfalls that so many of us you know have to navigate over so I appreciate your time and and I look forward to reconnecting with you soon yes sir coach I appreciate it a lot thank you so much I want to thank today's guest Max Shadee from Arkansas State University for coming on and sharing your conversation \[00:52:50\] There are plenty of things on this show that you can start to apply immediately today whether you're in a position where you have direct influence over staff numbers or with your student athletes that you work with on a daily basis if any of this resonates with you I please ask for you to share this on your favorite social media get out the word we'd love to have your support and like always we're aiming to truly understand and decode excellence